Zoe Metcalf: Nonprofit Leadership, Strategic Planning, and Overcoming Challenges

Tasha: Good morning. Can you please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your nonprofit origin story?

Zoe: Well, Um, I’m Zoe Metcalf and it’s great to be here. Love the nonprofit Hives. I, uh, started, got my start as a fundraiser as I’m sure, uh, many people do as a volunteer in the community. Uh, so I came up through the Junior League.

Zoe: Um, and did a lot of fundraising in that capacity and, um, then just you become involved in the community when you’re involved in an organization like that. So, uh, people hear that you. Can do this or that. And so then they ask you to do this or that for them. Yeah. So just did a lot of volunteer work and, um, lived in a small community and it was relatively easy to be pretty visible in, in that community.

Zoe: Uh, and that was in the nineties. So that that’s how I spent my 90s and in the early 2000s, um, I went back to school and finished my bachelor’s degree. Uh, and then a position opened to be the executive director of the local community foundation. And. I applied for that job, and that was the dream job. And so that’s how I got my professional start.

Zoe: And I’ve worked in the community foundation setting, I’ve worked for hospital foundations, university foundations, uh, health science centers, so medical school kind of foundations. And, and, uh, and now in the theater, uh, in a, in a professional theater, nonprofit theater, and that’s how I got here.

Tasha: I love it. I love it.

Tasha: And that’s such a breadth of nonprofit. Cover it off a lot of bases there. You know, I mean, with that kind of experience and across so many parts of nonprofit, like what are challenges? That you’ve seen kind of in each of those settings.

Zoe: Well, you know, people, I think, um, at least it’s true for me, I can’t speak for the world, obviously, but I think that people who, who are naturally gravitate towards the nonprofit setting are helpers, nurturers, um, doers, uh, people who are passionate about social change, people who, people who love people.

Zoe: People who see themselves, who, who understand that everyone, even the tiniest action, you know, has a ripple effect and makes, makes a difference. So those people are attracted to the non profit world, which is magnificent. I mean, yeah, the world would not need us.

Tasha: We need them, right? We need them so badly.

Zoe: The world would not go around, um, without them. We’re often willing to, you know, as you know, we’re often willing to work for less than a market rate because it’s the cause. Uh, so, um, What I, what I have found in nonprofits over the course of my, uh, of my long career is that they rely heavily on volunteers or individuals who are sort of willing to accept the organizational status quo.

Zoe: In service of the mission. The mission is key. The mission is all. And so then what you find after you’ve been doing this for a long time and you feel like you’ve reached a place where, okay, now I’m a professional at this. You see what’s missing. What would make your work so much easier? And gosh, there’s so many things that would make your work so much easier, but it requires investment.

Zoe: It requires internal investment and internal commitment, um, to making the necessary investments, taking a long term view, investing for the future, uh, putting the infrastructure in place to make things work beautifully, diversifying your revenue streams, um, making those investments to make that happen, investing in your staff, um, There’s a great lack of that, as you know, um, and that’s for a variety of reasons.

Zoe: Certainly it’s a lack of organizational research resources, but also even when there are other resources, it’s maybe a lack of understanding of how fundraising actually works and what makes it work. And yeah. How to do it right, how to share your message in the most impactful way, how to connect with the people who want to help you, who want to help you help others.

Zoe: Um, I think a lot of, uh, non profits do themselves maybe a little bit of a disservice, um, in that when they’re recruiting board members, for example, they’re, they’re afraid of being told no. They need the board members, so they soft pedal what the commitment is, what, what the need is. And so they say, you know, we only meet four times a year and we’d like you to come to our annual fundraiser and, you know, it’s really not, you can manage this.

Zoe: It’s not, you know, it’s not going to take up too much of your time. Is that true? Is that to the ultimate benefit of the organization? Probably no. You need the same boards that Fortune 500 companies have. You need. Business people, you need people who understand how to make money. Not for profit does not mean no profit.

Tasha: Absolutely. Yeah. It’s so many things. And as you’re like listening. different requirements out, you look at that and go like, there are little tiny teams of like two or three people that somehow have to know copy and fundraising and how to run a business because there is business infrastructure behind this.

Tasha: And you’re right. I think you do as you get higher in your professional career, you kind of go, I should, I should be able to have the support I need. Right. And when that continues to not happen and we’re living in a poverty cycle all the time with the lack of resources being one of the biggest poverty items, you know, what happens, what happens to the mindset of these helpers and doers who are being like, feel like sometimes I know I’ve heard a few people go, I just feel like I’m prevented from doing what I need.

Tasha: I know it needs to be done, but I’m being held back from it. And like, that hurts after a while, I think.

Zoe: And then, and then. You know, it, burnout’s a big topic in the non profit arena right now, and you find yourselves then with, with, uh, a profession predominantly staffed by incredibly passionate, incredibly talented, oftentimes young people, because the people who’ve been at it for a long time are just tired.

Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. And so they say, you know, I’m still passionate about people. I’m still passionate about cause and mission, but I’m going to find another way to serve that passion. And, and I’m going to move on from this. And so you lose an incredible amount of organizational history and, and, uh, professional knowledge and history and personality When, when a more seasoned, let’s say a more seasoned, I don’t want to say older, but a more seasoned fundraiser leaves the profession, a more seasoned nonprofit professional leaves the profession because they’re weary.

Zoe: Weary

Tasha: is a good word. I like that. Weary, right? Like, I mean, it doesn’t mean that with the right tools and the right support, that person can’t come back. Right. It just. I don’t think many people are looking at it and going, well, it hasn’t changed in this many years that I’ve been doing it. What are the chances it’s about to change, right?

Tasha: So, um, and I love your conversation about expectations of board members. Cause I think there’s a lot of in nonprofit where it’s like expectations is X reality is this and that like dissonance between the two is so problematic.

Zoe: Well, and, and, and I, you know, I really just encourage the nonprofit community to be thoughtful in your board recruitment and to be incredibly transparent.

Zoe: Um, the more seasoned I become, the more that I realize that everything is connected. And so the advice, my personal mantras about relationships and the way to live my life certainly stray over into my work. Say what you need. Be honest about what your needs are. And if you can’t meet your needs, it’s, it’s kind of a no fault world.

Zoe: It doesn’t mean that the environment that you’re in is bad or the people are bad or it just means this is what I need, this is what I know will make me happy, this is what is true about the world and I can’t necessarily have that here. And so when you’re engaging with anyone in your professional community with potential board members, be honest, be honest about what you need and beyond, you know, be transparent about what the reality is.

Zoe: Um, You know, I, I need you to participate with this organization because I need your financial savvy. I need you to hold us accountable. I need you to help us set a long term vision and then keep us accountable to working towards that. Um, I just think it would, it would help nonprofits so much, um, you know, to just say what you need.

Tasha: Yep. Agreed. Agreed. Instead of Tanya sugarcoating it a little bit, right? Like I think, yeah, maybe, maybe part of the challenge too, is like psychologically people who are helpers and doers are not trying to put other people out there. Like I kind of got this cause I’m a helper and a doer. I do that all the time where I’m like, got it.

Tasha: It’s fine. I don’t need your help. Yeah. Agreed. You know, but soft lobbing. You know, you do need help and not being honest has its own repercussions. And I don’t think nonprofit can afford that at this point. Right. There’s a, you know, that social proof and trust is super low. So I think if anything, Swinging towards like very transparent honesty about what’s required to.

Tasha: Changing the world is going to require something. It is. And it’s going to have a cost, right? And I think, you know, it shouldn’t be a cost bared just by the people in the work. It, you know, everyone should understand exactly what that cost is.

Zoe: Right, right. You know, everyone wants impact. Impact’s important.

Zoe: Um, and impact is so possible. The world has changed. People have changed it. It’s possible. In every other sort of sector, things that used to take years now take days. So, Let’s catch up. Let’s catch the non profit sector up. Let’s actually change things. Let’s actually demonstrate impact in a short period of time.

Zoe: I often say that here in the U. S. we’ve been waging a war on poverty. Since the fifties and they’re waging it and it’s it’s it’s not better, uh, necessarily. Yeah. So, we’re going to shake it up and

Tasha: stuff up, right?

Zoe: Yeah, let’s look at that and see what can work and make that that story different. That story roll forward differently.

Zoe: Absolutely.

Tasha: Absolutely. Okay. So we’re gonna shift it over and now favorite part of working in the nonprofit space. What have you loved about this work?

Zoe: Oh, um, well, it’s a, I find it to be a good space for people who are creative thinkers who think outside the box. Um, it’s a good opportunity. I’ve had several opportunities to Build something from the ground up to create something where there was nothing now my my activities in the nonprofit space have have centered around fundraising, but opportunities to to put a fundraising structure into place where there was none previously.

Zoe: Yeah. Um, you know, for all of the reasons that we’ve already talked about, uh, it, it’s possible to find a role where somebody says, what I really need is somebody to do these 17 things. And you’d say, I can do all of that.

Tasha: Yeah, which is wild, right? Yeah.

Zoe: Um, but you, you, You know, you’ve got your cape on and you’ve got your wand and you are going to make everything happen.

Zoe: You’re going to, uh, uh, take the science of fundraising and implement the whole thing, soup to nuts. Um, so. It can be fun from that perspective. Uh, uh, it certainly has been fun for me. Um, there’s a great sense of accomplishment when you do the right things, right. And it worked.

Tasha: Yeah. Ownership, right? Like there’s a lot of ownership that can happen in the nonprofit space.

Zoe: Yeah, and, and when you see, when you see the impact, when you can see the impact, it’s amazing. When you can demonstrate to someone else what the impact was, even more amazing. And when you can connect with someone who wants to help impact along, wow. Boom, you know, I say that a lot. So,

Tasha: no, I love it. I love it.

Tasha: And I think, you know, that’s the same joy I very much get from putting two great humans in a hive chat. Right. And afterwards when people are like, can’t believe it. Right. I had like three minutes after the hive chats finished Jeffrey and Sean, who I put together. Cause I was like, Oh, this will be an interesting pairing.

Tasha: Jeffrey had posted about it on LinkedIn and sent me a message. And I was like, now this is just like, Right. And you not love that when you get that opportunity to connect a donor to your mission, and it’s just like amazing. Amazing, right?

Zoe: Synergy. Synergy. It’s serendipity. I love those words. Um,

Tasha: I’m going to write those down afterwards, because you’re going to see it.

Tasha: hive post at some point where I go synergy and stuff. And I don’t know why I got a thumbs down because it’s a thumbs up instead. Um, Okay. I love that. I love that so much. Um, so one of my other questions is kind of focused in around like peer support in your work. Like, has it been critical to your work so far?

Tasha: What does peer support do for you in continuing to be able to serve the different missions you’ve been in?

Zoe: It’s very, um, it’s the validation of being able to talk to others who are doing the exact same work you’re doing. Uh, not even exact, but they’re in the same space and they understand. They, they understand why it, in the same five minutes, it can be horrifying and amazing.

Zoe: You know what I mean? Like, you can think about it. You can think to yourself, Oh my God, I can’t do this anymore. And five minutes later, something happens and whoop, it’s everything is right with the world. So

yeah,

Zoe: in, in your own, in your own space, you certainly, you, you probably not always, but you probably have, let’s say other fundraising colleagues to talk to in your own space.

Zoe: You don’t, You know, you’re not sharing that with everyone that’s working in the organization because Everyone has their own things, you know We’re not unique by any means Uh, so everyone has their own things and so to connect with people who understand your things is is very cool and um from from my hive chat today Just talking to, uh, say Keto in Uganda.

Zoe: I think I can connect him with a funder in the Dallas area who focuses on the work that he does in internationally. And. If I could make that happen, right, or I can support somebody halfway around the world in a place I’ve never seen, but doing work that I recognize as incredibly valuable and, and just a tiny action on my part might make a shift for him.

Tasha: Absolutely. He’s doing incredible work. I just, and you know, like just how he’s connecting it all together and like how he’s using his own education and his own skills and you look at it. And I think that is what often I see as someone who connects with non profiteers all over the world is it is so interesting to watch all of these highly educated, Well, like professionals in they’ve chosen, they’ve chosen a, like a hardship, like they, they know it’s going to be hard and they know it’s a challenge, but they’re looking at it and going, I can, I can change something here, right?

Tasha: Like, it’s, so it’s amazing.

Zoe: It’s amazing. It is amazing. So I think, um, peer support at You know, they, they, I’ve heard it said, um, particularly during the pandemic that, uh, but, but it remains true and it was true before the pandemic. We are more connected to one another now than we have ever been at any point in history.

Zoe: Yeah. It’s easier to connect. It’s, it’s instantaneous. It’s around the world. Um, We are, we are so connected and so lonely, so isolated, so, so removed from humanity. And so this, uh, platform, this peer-to-peer connection. is incredibly helpful, not just for non profiteers, but for everyone, that there should be, there should be a hive for everyone.

Tasha: I think, I think we’re all trying to, you know, I hesitate to use the word tribes because that then sounds exclusionary, when that’s not the point, right? But I do think, Many of us need need to kind of go like here’s my quirky niche over here of like, you know My art community and here’s the community that I still have from the the small town I grew up in and because they get it because they grew up there too, but I do or we’re missing out on Opportunities when we don’t look at things we’re passionate about our work life, um, you know, as a mom, like I have my fellow moms, and if I didn’t have them, I would have been a broken human.

Tasha: Like, I couldn’t have done it without them. Right. And I still need them now. Right. And, um, so I think we all naturally gravitate towards building out. Our people, the hard part is, is we tend to look still geographically and forget that I would have never met you if not for the hive, which is so wonderful because I love hearing not only from you when you’ve had a great chat, but I love hearing other people talk about you and how great the chat was, right?

Tasha: So like, for me, it’s just such a blessing to round myself with other people who also want to connect. And. Yes. Sometimes it’s a little bit of a leap, like hilariously as Sasekito has not been on a chat for almost two months, just because of how busy he was. So it is so cool when you show up, he shows up and I’m like, yeah, that’s so amazing.

Tasha: Right. To have that, um, that serendipity again, right. Of putting two people in the right room at the right time, but you just have to take that leap to jump in the room in the first place.

Zoe: Right. And it could have been any two people. Like, it could have been, it could have been, and it has been.

Tasha: Yeah.

Zoe: You know, I got something so valuable from my talk with Craig, I can’t even tell you.

Zoe: And it was just a perspective on something I was struggling with that gave me the idea of how I might be able to move that issue forward. And that’s happened every week. Oh, yay! I, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t miss this. Thanks.

Tasha: Oh, I love that so much. Well, you’re a very, very valued member of the community. And in some ways, my next question is like, you know, what have you been getting out of doing these hive chats and being a member of the nonprofit?

Tasha: So if you have something additional, but I feel like you already brilliantly answered so much of it.

Zoe: Yeah, like, just, you know, the connections are invaluable. Um, and. You know, I’m very seasoned, uh, I’ll be milestone seasoned this summer. Um, I’m turning 60. I still don’t know what I want to be when I grow up and every day I learned something new and this is all a part of that.

Zoe: This is all a part of that. I am open to the world, I guess, and this helps me connect with the world. Um, Even before the non profit Hive, I had acquaintances that I talked to regularly in Scotland, Ireland, Australia, the UK, Brazil. Yet, it’s, I’m, I, I want to learn. I want to learn. I can, there’s always going to be a little nugget that is going to inform something that I’m doing.

Zoe: And so that’s what I get from the hive, the opportunity to continue that interest in what’s going on in the world and how I might learn from it. So I

Tasha: love that so much. Well, I just want to be like you and I grow up too. So just a heads up, you may be like, I don’t know what I want to be. And other people are like, Well, I just want to be exactly like Zoe, because you’re amazing.

Tasha: And honestly, it’s been so appreciative of you just, you know, your belief that this is a thing that this is moving forward. So, uh, thank you very much. And thank you for your time today, because this has been such a fun hive chat. Uh, you know, I love doing these interviews and I know we’d already connected one to one ourselves, but, um, I always love when your name pops up.

Tasha: Match.

Zoe: Me too. Thank you so much, Tasha.