Why “Future-Ready” Matters: Greg Harrell-Edge and the Proimpact Project

Nicole: [00:00:00] Hey, Greg, thank you so much for joining us today. I’m really excited to have this conversation with you. I know you’re working on some of really amazing cool things in the nonprofit sector, and I’d love if you could, take a little time to introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your nonprofit journey.

What led you into this work, and what keeps you inspired today? 

Greg: Sure. So, Greg Harrel – Edge, the current founder and executive director of the Pro Impact Project. Like so many people, I think everybody in nonprofit, a frequent thing is that people say they zigged and zagged into it. And I definitely did as well.

It did a bunch of, career zigs and zags before winding up here. But what got me into it was actually, that my dad spent his entire career working in the nonprofit sector and leading nonprofit organizations. And he found it really fulfilling, but he also found it really frustrating. And so while lots of people end [00:01:00] up in the sector because they have this personal connection to a more traditional mission, like they know somebody who suffered from a specific illness or, they went through a hardship.

For me, the thing that drew me to it and the personal connection was more meta about the entire nonprofit sector. And the idea that we might finally be reaching a point where we could start to evolve out of some of the models that have really restricted what our organizations and sector are capable of.

And so when I got involved, first got involved in, so 17 years ago now. I, told my first executive director at the time feeling there’s gonna be a wave of really innovative organizations in the next three years that do things totally differently and use a lot of technology and things like that.

And that turned out to be a little early. But it does feel like that’s starting to happen now in ways that I think are really exciting. 

Nicole: Yeah, that’s [00:02:00] totally fair. You were like 15 years before the curve on that one, which I love. That’s amazing. I love that you have a history and a background with your family working in nonprofit.

I think a lot of us do have that story of family and support that got us into these spaces and it definitely, sets the tone of how we operate and what we think of the nonprofit, narrative and what we think nonprofit work is. So I love that you’ve come into this space wanting to be innovative and try to like shake up the systems because I feel that is a conversation we’re having a lot of right now across the sector.

So I appreciate someone like you taking the charge and trying to make some of those pieces move forward, which is amazing. So what part of the work lights you up the most? 

Greg: Exactly what you were just saying. There’s so much stuff that I always had a sense, and I think we all do.

Like you were saying, how we think of the nonprofit sector and what it is and what nonprofits are and aren’t capable of. Where in the back of our minds, it’s [00:03:00] sort of like, yeah, there’s something here that it feels like we could do things differently. And where exactly did these models come from?

But nobody’s got the time to, step back and do that kind of like meta analysis. And so over the last year since starting this organization, I’ve really gotten to do that. And it’s been so fascinating. Just this weekend I uncovered something where it was like, so that’s why things are the way that they are.

And so if I could give a quick example of that, most of what we think about the nonprofit sector came from this thing that I had never heard of. And in years of doing this and having these theories called the Filer Commission, have you ever heard of the Filer Commission?

No, I have not. Okay. So there’s a new piece of content I’m working on, but, love it. Let’s hear it. So, in the early seventies, so throughout the sixties, there was a big crackdown on, tax exempt organizations. Which by the way, weren’t really called nonprofits then. They were mostly called charities and there was this big crackdown on charities and whether or [00:04:00] not they’re scams and, stuff that sort of feels familiar now.

There were some politicians who were like, made it their big charge to talk about how charities were scams. And there was a big tax act in 1969 where they created like the modern nine 90 and overhead and all of that stuff. And so this group came together and basically, created what we think of as the nonprofit sector.

They were criticized for. It was a lot of corporate leaders and heads of the biggest foundations, and they essentially decided it was all based on trying to create this sector that seemed prevented people from thinking it was a scam. So even the word nonprofit is not a legal term. It doesn’t appear in 5 0 1 C3.

The New York Times started using it around this time instead of charity. It’s terrible branding. It’s branding the entire sector for what we don’t do. And it was these decisions made over a short period of time in the sixties and seventies that were all intended to prevent people from thinking that our organizations are [00:05:00] scams, but not at all intended to structure these organizations to be as impactful as they can be and, be able to provide a sustainable living for the people who work in them, et cetera.

Nicole: That’s so interesting too because that’s obviously an American example that has rolled out globally. Like we use the term nonprofit in Canada as well, and we regularly have those challenges people. There’s usually like one story in the media where like some scam or some type of frustration happens that the media picks up, and then across the board, the entire sector gets impacted or hurt because of this type of news.

Right. And I just find it so interesting that it’s something that we continuously come up against and it’s. We don’t even need to come up against. It’s frustrating seeing this narrative repeat itself when the systems like we’re not doing ourself any justice either. We’re not changing anything and the models that we currently work in feel broken to me, and I feel like

[00:06:00] 17 years ago when you said that to your ED or CEO, it was the same thing. And it’s frustrating to see, that narrative continuing to repeat itself while also inspiring to think of different models and what the future can actually look like. But for that to happen, we really need to shift. Like how the way boards think, how the way funders think, and like exactly what you said, the people who made these decisions back in the sixties, we needed to have people within in-house, in the sector also advocating for why things are the way they are or how we can do things better, or ways that we can improve things.

So I love that little nugget that you unleash or found and shared. But I’m wondering as well, ’cause with your work with the Pro Impact Hive, you work a lot with eds, and leaders in the sector. So can you tell me a little bit about some of the, strategies or ways or, tools potentially that you have seen worked well for that type of strategic change or ways that [00:07:00] the sector is doing that as a whole?

Greg: Yeah, so I think the stage that we’re at right now is that in all of these different parts of running a nonprofit organization, you’re seeing the old ways are getting to a breaking point where everybody has felt that’s happening and it’s, you know, breaking a little bit more and a little bit more.

And for almost every part of running a nonprofit, there are examples of organizations. That have found a different, more modern way to do it that’s working better, but it hasn’t really been pulled together yet. Into a comprehensive overall, kind of what you were saying, like a, just a completely different way of doing things.

And so that’s the work that we are trying to do is sift through all of this stuff. That when I was running a more traditional nonprofit organization, I didn’t have the time to do all the stuff that wound up. I would tag content that I wanted to go through and [00:08:00] never got around to it and never got the chance to digging through all that stuff and trying to put it together into one platform that, executive directors and nonprofit CEOs can utilize.

And figure out what that looks like as a comprehensive playbook. I think that’s an iterative process and something that we’re just at the beginning of. But essentially what an entirely new way of running an organization, would look like that doesn’t flow from this basic idea of sort of overhead and nonprofit.

The term nonprofit of trying to prevent people from thinking that we’re scammed. Where then everything I think that we think of as how a nonprofit operates, that we don’t pay people well, that we don’t invest in technology kind of flows from these two major things that are an entire sort of a sector and way of doing things that are based around trying to prevent people from thinking where a scam.

And so trying to create what that new version of it looks like in a more comprehensive way. 

Nicole: It’s exciting thinking about what that new version can be, [00:09:00] but it feels exhausting trying to make that change already. There’s so many conversations and ecosystems that we would need to navigate through, to make that change possible.

But I love the idea of bringing leaders together though, to start. Like really working through those pieces. So kudos for you for setting that up. What’s one challenge or shift you’re currently navigating in your organization or the sector? How are you approaching it or what kind of support would help?

Greg: One of the biggest challenges is basically, I think the terminology and language for what comes next. And trying to find, I think, again, something that you just referred to is something that I think I see all the time with nonprofit leaders. This feeling of, that all sounds nice, of a whole new way of doing things.

It also sounds overwhelming. Yeah. Hard, you know, where, where do we even start? Yeah. And so trying to figure, I think one of the most [00:10:00] fundamental things, it’s the semantics are not enough in and of themselves, but I think they are having a shared language for how to talk about these things, I think is often really important.

And so that’s one of the things, even the term future ready. So one of the things we talk a lot at Pro Impact is the idea of helping nonprofit leaders in organizations become future ready. That term is one that after trying a lot of things, trying to find the terminology that feels the most inclusive to people and brings them in as opposed to things that feel too techy or, that, might be off-putting.

And so basically trying to find the language to be as inclusive of as possible and bring as many people in as possible to together, figure out what a playbook for a new way of doing things looks like. 

Nicole: I love that. Future. Ready? That’s a good way to frame it. And I think we get caught up in the old guard.

It was easy to do, not easy necessarily, but it’s what we know. And [00:11:00] leadership, it’s shifting obviously now, like the generational shift is happening in leadership, but there’s still this, like you come up against that old guard or that old way of thinking and. Innovating, trying new things, listening to diverse voices.

All of that comes with like challenges, unlearning your biases, all of those pieces. And I just think you’ve hit the nail, like being future ready is something that we all need to look at and, I appreciate that. I appreciate the approach you’re taking. ’cause I do think there is a lot of really interesting ways that we can look at these models and we don’t know what it might like.

We don’t know what it could be. And I think that’s the exciting part. So really cool work that you guys are doing there. It kind of 

Greg: ties to, if I could say, one of the idea that, again, I hadn’t stumbled on until this past weekend, but. The filer commission 50 years ago said, okay, we want to create an entire new way of doing things.

They basically invented the concept of a [00:12:00] nonprofit sector, and it was an era that changed from the charity era and model to the nonprofit. Era and model, but they did it in a way and they had their reasons for it. And well intentioned, they did it in a way that even at the time was rightly criticized, I think, for being top down and gathering these people, the, corporate executives and heads of the biggest foundations.

And so essentially part of what we’re trying to do now is created an entire new approach to doing things. A bottom up approach. Yeah. Let’s gather the largest audience of people leading organizations that we can. Let’s gather the tactics that people are using that are modern, and let’s try to take all of that from the bottom up and turn it into a playbook in a sector of what things could look like going forward.

And even the name Pro Impact the idea of the semantics. We, commissioned a brand survey about the term nonprofit and, interviewed, surveyed members of the public. And it has a terrible brand value. And actually even the word charity, when you [00:13:00] ask people, for organizations that do good work, receive donations to do good work and people volunteer for them, what term feels the best to you to describe those organizations?

Charity, outpaced, nonprofit, almost two to one. And so even charity, people prefer more. But then when we asked them, we had a few different terms and said, which of these terms feels like the best fit? 70 some percent of people said if an organization did that type of work described itself as pro impact.

They would assume that it was more efficient. More effective, they’d be more likely to donate and they would be more interested in volunteering just from the semantics of using that term. 

Nicole: So interesting. And it, says so much about how people think and the narrative that we’ve all told ourselves, even people outside of the sector.

’cause I do think there is a very negative impact that continues to grow in today’s realities, around exactly what you’re saying, nonprofit and the term charity. And I think we need to [00:14:00] disassociate ourselves almost with that and really rethink the way we present ourselves like we are offering additional supports that the government can’t cover, and that is fundamental to human rights and equity and equality and all of those components that nonprofits, charities are fighting for, and they’re crucial to the ethos of our society, and we just, I totally agree. We need to rebrand ourselves and I think, I’m excited to see what that looks like in the future For sure. This kind of ties into, because I, well you said grassroots and I think community is a lot of that grassroots work.

And listening to the people that you serve, your clients, all of those components. So I’m curious with things like The Nonprofit Hive Pro Impact Ed Hive, have you had conversations or connections through these platforms that help shape your work or your perspective? This could be like someone you’ve met, an idea that’s

stuck. Or just simply a feeling that you’re not doing it alone? [00:15:00] 

Greg: Oh, absolutely. I mean, both through the nonprofit hive and then being able to use community hives and create the ed hive. Both of those are the lifeblood of how any of us can get a perspective, but particularly myself in trying to do this work.

Being able to talk to people from across the sector in the nonprofit have other leaders, but every single person you talk to, it’s like the old story about, people holding different parts of an elephant. As the old story about people holding different, blind people holding different parts of an elephant and saying No, the person holding the tusk saying, no, it really feels really hard and sharp in the person holding the tail, describing it differently. And I think it’s like that with both the challenges that we’re facing and the solutions that every person you talk to at a different organization or somebody who’s, a consultant who’s serving nonprofits. Has this different vantage point and a different perspective of both the challenges and the potential solutions that all of it is just so rich and valuable for figuring out what the future should look like.

Nicole: [00:16:00] Yeah. It’s so interesting to see like how those come together in a meaningful way to actually bring that change. And I think there’s a lot of great organizations doing that work yourself, yours one included. And it would just be like a great way. I’d love to see how those continue to build.

And like coalition building across those types of organizations, I think I’m hopeful, will be something that we can do in the future. So my last question, what’s one insight, resource or mindset that’s helped you recently and might help others in the community to 

Greg: I think one of the biggest ahas for me in doing this work was when we started.

I thought it was about the tactics. And that to make this shift, we need to find the tactics that are working and inform people, that this organization is using this tactic in a really interesting way for fundraising and peer to peer. This one’s doing something really interesting for monthly giving.

This one’s doing something really interesting with their [00:17:00] programs and the more that I’ve gone on in the work, I think it’s the before the tactics come, the beliefs, and so that it’s really an overall mindset shift about what nonprofits even are, what we can be, and then even before that, it’s sort of like battering and dismantling these inherited beliefs that we all got.

I mean, none of us were in the filer commission in the 1970s or we’re doing this work. Then we all came into it. And, we’re inherited these beliefs about what the sector is. And so it’s that before you even get to the tactics, that it’s really questioning some of the most fundamental foundational things that we all believe about this work.

Whether or not they still apply and that’s the shift that needs to proceed. The tactics. 

Nicole: Yeah. That’s smart. I like that. I think we’ve touched on it in every single question and discussion here, but the work that needs to be done in the, for the future of this sector is needed so much right [00:18:00] now and I just seeing and talking to nonprofits on like a daily basis and hearing the challenges that they’re coming up against, I think that is exactly the thing that we need to start.

Really focusing on as a sector as a whole, and then start looking at those other pieces. ’cause I think you, you’ve hit the nail on the head that is exactly where we need to start this work. And like I said, there’s brilliant people doing it. It’s how do we come together to make sure that we can stand it all up together 

Greg: And nobody’s doing that better than you all at the nonprofit hive that it’s making these cross connections all across the sector that I think

every week with the work that you all are doing is changing all of our perspectives and giving us all insight, slowly but surely. Huge thank you and kudos to what you all are doing with the nonprofit Hive and the amazing platform with Community Hives to be able to have any of us replicate that and create similar sub-communities and program and mission communities, et cetera.

Nicole: It’s pretty amazing. I love the conversations we have on a weekly [00:19:00] basis. It’s like absolutely one of my highlights of the week for sure. Amazing. Thank you so much, Greg. It’s been such a pleasure getting to chat with you and hearing about your perspectives and insights and just hearing more about what’s possible, the future, and where the next phase of the nonprofit sector can go.

Thank you so much. Absolutely. 

Greg: Yeah. Thank you.