Susan Kahan on Trust, Generosity, and the Quiet Work of Fundraising

Nicole: [00:00:00] Thank you so much for joining today. I’m so excited to be talking with you. Could you please introduce yourself and tell us about your nonprofit journey, what led you into this work and what you, what keeps you inspired today?

Susan: Sure. Thank you Nicole, so much for having me.
My name is Susan Kahan. I’m the founder and principle of Sapphire Fundraising Specialists, which is a consulting business working with established nonprofits on their fundraising strategy. We do a lot of work on assessing how development operations and teams are functioning. We do a lot of training for staff and board on fundraising and solicitation skills, and then we also work with development teams on major gifts planned giving.
Capital campaigns, sometimes other board work. Just overall, how can they raise more money primarily from individual donors. And we’ve been in business about four and a half years, so it’s really exciting approaching fifth year, which feels like a dream. But my journey started. I think almost every [00:01:00] child is asked, what do you wanna be when you’re grow, when you grow up?
And mine, I never had an answer for that. I never knew what I wanted, but I always knew I wanted to do something that would help people. And years later, I realized that my skillset and what I really wanted was to work for a nonprofit. That to me made sense. That was a way of helping others. And I think a lot of that also comes from several members of my family were very involved with a few different charities as volunteers, and so I saw it firsthand.
So I’ve been involved with nonprofits ever since interning in college and then working in nonprofits right out of college. And then until I started my company and now I basically exclusively work with nonprofit organizations. And then what inspires me? So, so many things, but two things I really deeply believe in, which is one that small iter iterative progress can make and lead [00:02:00] to big change and big impact.
And so I think sometimes, those small things, helping one person going community by community step by step can really lead to a big change. And the second thing is that I think at the end of the day, most people are generous. Are good and wanna help others. And so, my focus is on fundraising.
And so when it comes to talking with donors, I think people are like, oh, I don’t wanna bother them. I don’t wanna nudge them, I don’t wanna do this. But it’s like, look, if someone cares about your cause, chances are, if they can be helpful and they can be financially supportive, they will do it. So it’s all about framing it as how can you give people the opportunity to make a difference?

Nicole: I love that and I think it’s so important. You said a few things. Small impacts or small changes make big impact. I think that’s such a huge consideration or a huge, kind of value or perspective from a lot of nonprofits. Like one small [00:03:00] movement can really move that needle and it’s so important.
I also love that you started your nonprofit journey back in college and university, like that’s, I find so many people find themselves in that. Space and they like oftentimes don’t know the direction they wanna go into or what career or path. And then they find a nonprofit and they stay there. Yeah.
They’re like, this is it. I didn’t know what it was, but this is it. Yeah. It was the exact same thing that happened with me and I was like, I’ve been in it. And I just, I love it. I love the work. And I think, I like, I hear so many people that have that similar kind of start where it’s, they didn’t really know and then all of a sudden they found it and it all,

Susan: it just clicked.
It just clicked. And you know what’s also interesting is when I was in college, I thought I would be more on the communications and marketing side. And so that’s where I thought I would end up. And then when I graduated college, and this, you know, dates me, I graduated a time where the economy was really tough.
Very different than now. A different, very difficult economic time of a recession, and it was really hard to find a job. And so I applied [00:04:00] for so many different jobs in all these different areas, communications, and I found this one job in fundraising, and I joke sometimes no one again, when you’re a little kid.
They ask you, what do you wanna be when you grow up? No one says, I wanna be a fundraiser. Like that just isn’t what people say. But I fell into it and I was, I thought this really gels well with my skillset at what I’m interested in. It was exciting to me. So it was really a great fit. I love that.

Nicole: That’s awesome. So when you think about your career and the path you’ve taken, what part of the work really lights you up the most? Is there like a specific project or a story or an impact moment that you can think of that you’re like, yes, this is what gets me jazzed and excited?

Susan: Yeah. Well, my background is in fundraising and I did mainly major gift work.
And then I led a team. Then I went off on my own. And so what I really love and what I’ve learned is I love doing trainings. I love helping others to gain skills so that they can do it. I think there’s a lot [00:05:00] of hesitation, fear, lack of confidence around fundraising, around talking with major donors.
And when I can be in a meeting and I can push people a little bit outside of their comfort zone to get them to try to act out what would this conversation with this potential donor look like and really get them to think through. I love doing that. I, that really lights me up. I really want people to feel
more comfortable and confident in their roles. And the other thing about that is, I think sometimes people are like, well, they’re trying to talk to these people who are so wealthy and what can I talk to ’em and how do I build a relationship? And look at the end of the day, they’re just people.
There are people who have the same worries and concerns and the same, things that light them up just like anyone else. And it’s just about getting to know them and giving them a way to show their values. And I think that’s the thing about fundraising and [00:06:00] nonprofits in general, is that how you budget, how you spend your money is a demonstration of your values.
And so if you can show to a potential donor, look, you really care about this cause. Here’s how you can demonstrate that financially and really lead to some small or big change over time. I think that’s really powerful.

Nicole: Yeah, it really is. I think, fundraising can be intimidating. You’re asking somebody to potentially definitely give some of their time, money, resources, whatever that is.
Absolutely. And I think you hit the nail on the head when the value alignment, you’re asking somebody to actually. Support a value that they already have. And finding that right organization is part of the fun or the trick of fundraising is making sure that it actually aligns with their values.
Not everyone’s gonna be a good donor for you.

Susan: No, not at all. And I always give an example. I’m not a big animal person. I’ve nothing against animals, but I’ve never been a big animal person. So if someone were to come to me and say, we [00:07:00] have this amazing shelter, we do all these.
Things for the dogs and cats and other pets in the community that don’t have a home. I’d be like, that’s great. I’m not your donor. Because people, at the end of the day, they can only give to so many things. They can only prioritize so many things, and for me, that’s not my priority. I know other people care deeply and I think that’s amazing, but I’m not the big donor for them, and that’s okay.

Nicole: Yeah, I agree. And I think knowing that, and then sometimes like donors don’t even know where their values, not values, yes. But where they actually wanna, where they can leave their legacy, I think. Yes. And like that impacts that they actually can make. And then sometimes it’s somebody like yourself or a fundraiser who just helps them coach them along that journey.
I agree with you. I think a lot of people are genuinely good, and wanna leave that legacy. So I think a fundraiser’s role is really around. Building those connecting dots and like giving them the pathway on this is what it could look like and it finding that alignment for them. So I just, I love that.
I think it is an intimidating role, but [00:08:00] it’s an important role and I think it actually creates like lasting. All of those components for them, for the organization and their families. So, kudos to you. ’cause that’s a fun task to have. Yes. It can be challenging though. Yeah.
Which ties into my next question. What’s one challenge or shift you’re currently navigating in your organization or in the sector as a whole? How are you approaching it and what kind of support would help in that space?

Susan: Yeah. I think, look, honestly, I think the sector right now is facing.
Massive changes and massive challenges. And so it’s hard to just pin down one thing, sector wide. But one thing I think is really critical, and I’m based in the United States, so most of my knowledge around this stuff is US-based. But I know you’re in Canada, and I think Canada’s pretty similar in this.
On a couple of these things. But number one is we have an aging population. And I think this is actually a global trend, but we have an aging [00:09:00] population and there’s a couple of impact or effects from that. So number one in the United States, I think it’s somewhat true in Canada, but again, I’m less sure in the United States, the eldest generation, the baby boomer generation, those born right after World War II into the six 1960s, they have the largest.
Holder of wealth.

Nicole: Yeah.

Susan: So for many nonprofits, their largest donors are all over 60 and younger generations have less money. And this is leading to a whole bunch of things. So one, you have younger people, it’s harder for them to donate because they have less disposable income. And when you think about not just income, but net worth, yeah, there is huge income inequality, which again, it’s like all kind of connected.
And this leads to less people donating. And the while donations are going up, it’s because a few big donors are giving tremendous amounts, which is amazing, [00:10:00] but there’s so much competition. So I think this is all going to lead to. Fewer nonprofits, which could be a benefit, it could be a good thing. But I think just thinking through that competition for dollars from some of these older aging donors.
And the other thing with this aging population that I’m seeing a lot is there were a lot of nonprofits that were founded, let’s say in the 1970s, the 1980s, maybe even the 1990s. And those founders. Are ready to retire. Yeah. And they don’t know who’s gonna take over for them. And there’s even a question of should we continue?
So I think there’s just a lot of generational change, wealth in inequality. And then the final major challenge is technology. I think you can’t talk about challenges at nonprofits without talking about technology. There’s AI can do some amazing things. Also, people are really nervous that they’re gonna lose their jobs from it.
And they’re not wrong. I, frankly, I [00:11:00] think, again, where people are working is really gonna change. So I think all of these things all combined with competition for dollars, technology, changing how we work and who’s doing what, and just what nonprofits will continue, I think are just like major forces all happening at the same time.

Nicole: Yeah, that’s completely fair. And I agree with you. I think there’s so much change at this current moment that what we have done, five years ago, 10 years ago, that’s not gonna work anymore. And we have to think differently. So if it’s merging or consolidating nonprofits, if it is thinking of fractional workers and support staff that are, helping three or four different nonprofits in HR or whatever that is.
I think I agree with you. We have to think differently and then technology can be a benefit, but it also could be like, we have to stay. Stay not ahead of it, because it’s almost impossible to stay ahead of it, but at least stay with the trends. Yes. ’cause the for-profit sector [00:12:00] is, they’re running that space.
So the nonprofit sector has to at least be able to keep up or stay on point with what’s happening. Especially trying to reach the younger generations. They’re very savvy. Yes. Now the older generations I agree with you. They like, that’s I. Very similar in Canada. Yeah, we do have an aging demographic, but I think they’re also quite savvy.
Yes, they know how to use the tools. They want to use the tools. They’re staying on top of those trends as well. So I think the nonprofit itself just has to think differently because I think we’re stuck in our ways and yeah, we can’t be anywhere. Well,

Susan: I think, you really are, I cannot agree with you more that nonprofits, even the most progressive, like forward thinking missions.
Aren’t always the most progressive, most forward thinking operations. Yeah. And this is the, I mean, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard from a nonprofit from a client or someone I’m talking to and they’re like, well, this is the way we do it. [00:13:00] And it’s like, why? Do you have to keep doing it that way?
Is that just how you do it? It’s like, well, that’s how we do it. I’m like, okay, but. Is there any possibility? And you go again, I’m always about the small change. Is there any way we can make it a little different? Not totally change, but a little different. And that change is really hard.
I think a lot of nonprofit boards are really risk averse and don’t allow for investment, for change, and to try things. Big new change can be expensive. And I understand that can be really limiting. What if you pilot a project? What if you try something? What if you test something for six months a year, get some data?
Most things, most change doesn’t happen overnight, and I think nonprofits need to be thinking about well. Technology. Look, we’re not going back from ai, you know? Yeah. We’re on a virtual call in two different countries talking at the same time, which sometimes, you know, that’s kind of really cool when you think about it.
Yeah. 10 years ago. Maybe you could do something like [00:14:00] this, but it’d be low bandwidth. Like it wouldn’t work. So imagine what it’ll be like 10 years from now. I don’t think we can even imagine some of these changes that will be happening to our work life. I also think about, I’m younger than this, but when people started having computers on their desks, like there was a period not too long ago that people didn’t have computers on their desks at work and they.
And I try to think so, what did they do all day? You know? So I think we’re at that same stage where we are going through a massive technological change. And organizations and nonprofits need to be thinking about how are we gonna deal with this? How are we going to adapt? How can we make, how can we test things?
Because if we don’t, if we don’t look forward, we may not survive it.

Nicole: I totally agree. I think there’s this whole concept too around like boards tend to be risk averse, like you said. Yes. And then [00:15:00] like testing innovations or thinking a little differently is scary and or they’re not willing to make those changes.
And I think that has to change in itself. Like we need to think really differently and. Innovation or not being, like not being afraid to fail. ’cause I know nonprofits also don’t do failure well, or we don’t talk about it. We don’t celebrate it, we don’t learn from it. We don’t talk to each other about it.
And I think that’s like a fundamental flaw of us, the nonprofit sector, right? Is like learning from the mistakes and actually like sharing them and being like, we tried this and it did not work.

Susan: Nicole, you are so right. I think. Trust is a huge, again, I think from a fundraising lens always. And so if you’re not going to donate dollars voluntarily to an organization you don’t trust, maybe you’ll do it once, but you won’t do it twice and you’re not gonna increase your giving.
So showing and demonstrating trust. When we are in a world, in a state where [00:16:00] institutional trust, whether that’s government, people we don’t know, things on the internet, just. We don’t trust things right now. And again, there’s a lot of good reason for that. There’s a lot of scammy, spammy things out there.
So nonprofits need to demonstrate trust and part of that is being honest. When you try something and it doesn’t work, if I were to say, we tried this thing and we raised a million dollars from it, but in reality we lost a hundred thousand dollars, you’d be like, what? And you figured that out later, you would be like, you’re a total liar.
That’s not real. So I think showing, you know what? We tried this thing. We hoped it would do this. This was the goal, this was the intention. It didn’t work out the way we wanted. In reality, it cost us this much, but this is what we learned and this is what we’re gonna do better the next time.

Nicole: Yeah.

Susan: And I think that builds trust and is such a key thing for nonprofits right now.

Nicole: Yeah, I a hundred percent agree. ’cause I think trust is on the decline, unfortunately, across the [00:17:00] board, like every area. Absolutely. So yeah, I think those are really interesting perspectives and I am so curious how nonprofits move into that space a little better in the future. For sure. Yeah, I

Susan: think, and I’ll just say, I think some of it has to be allowing for time to discuss.
How can we demonstrate trust better? How can we use technology to our advantage to be innovative, to take some risks responsibly? And I think also allowing for voices that maybe don’t always get heard. You usually, the board is involved, the, department heads are involved. The C-suite, depending on the size of the organization, sometimes
the best ideas might come from someone you may not expect when it comes to innovation and change. And there was someone, I was with an organization and someone who like answered the phones and was the greeter. ’cause they had a lot of visitors. And so this person was like the front desk person.
They had an idea about improving something and it’s like, oh, then no one would’ve [00:18:00] thought it because that person had a view, a li, a visual view of the office in a way no one else did. Yeah, sure. And so they bring something and I think it’s important to listen to them and try things out. Yeah. I

Nicole: love that.
I think that’s, listening to everybody and different perspectives and voices I think is so crucial. Yeah. So this kind of ties into it ’cause I think there’s something really interesting about the nonprofit hive, as a whole and that one-to-one connection. So I’m curious, how have conversations or connections through the nonprofit hive helped shape your perspective?
I feel like there’s, this ties into what some of the challenges were that we were talking about and how like just one-to-one conversations could. Change some of those pieces.

Susan: Definitely. Well, I think the best way to build a relationship with someone is to talk to them one-on-one. Yeah. So I am a big believer in.
Building relationships with new people all the time. Yes, I do that for my business, but also in a fundraising sense, like it’s really important that you’re able to talk to [00:19:00] people you don’t know. Yeah. So if you are a fundraiser, just getting the experience of talking about your organization to someone who has no knowledge of it and getting that experience can be a really.
Great benefit. And for me, I love learning about other people. I love learning what their challenges are. I also think you can read a lot of articles. You can read the big data that is not always apparent at the individual organization or individual. Employee level. And I think being able to talk to people from literally all over the world
and hear what they’re working on, hear what they’re doing, you never know where that conversation can lead. And again, you never know what can, inspire and ideas inspired, I always try to be helpful whenever I can. But yeah, I just, I like the idea of people in this sector around the world.
Having other people they can talk to and just get to know with. No, it’s not like an [00:20:00] agenda, oh, I wanna get something out of it. It’s just talking to people. And I think, again, even though we are such a connected world, sometimes we’re just in our zones and we’re not talking to people. And I think getting to know people of different backgrounds, different countries, different races, different genders, all the things, different beliefs.
I think it’s really important. That we’re not so siloed in our own little bubbles.

Nicole: Yeah. And I love that. I think, there’s something really you said, like you get to almost practice the idea of talking about your organization. And I I think people take that for granted sometimes, and when you’re talking to another person who works in nonprofit, they kind of get it right, like you can use it as that testing space or what we were talking about earlier.
Like you could share some of the things that you may have. Tried and it didn’t work. And you get to have real honest, candid conversations with people in the sector who already get it. And I think that is something that’s been missing for me. And again, I always feel like we’re always in competition with one another in the sector.
So it’s [00:21:00] like this also removed some of that barrier as well and it really created opportunity to just share the real realities of what they experience on a day-to-day basis. So I like what you were saying there for sure.

Susan: Yeah.

Nicole: So to wrap it up, what’s one insight, resource or mindset that helped, that has helped you recently and what might help others in the community too?
I’d love to hear what’s working for you right now?

Susan: Well, one thing, and I don’t know when this will be shared, but it’s holiday season, end of year, and I think right now people are always busy, like, when do you meet someone? They’re like, oh, I have nothing going on.
Very rarely. But I think what’s important to remember. Is you have no idea what someone else is going through, especially someone who you don’t know that well or a colleague even. Like you don’t know were they late to work because there were all this traffick or an accident or someone got in their way or they’re caring for a sick family member or someone just, something just [00:22:00] obnoxious happened to them right before, or they just read something that angered them like you have no idea.
Right before a conversation or an interaction, you have no idea what else that person just experienced. And I take this very personally sometimes, and I’m trying to not, but most people’s, their happiness or their anger is usually has nothing to do with, another person. It’s usually what’s happening internally.
Yeah. And so just remembering that, don’t take things too personally sometimes, and remember that, again, I know a lot of my fundraisers that I work with right now, they’re trying to call donors and they’re busy and it’s like, again, just remember they have a whole life going on and they’re not expecting your phone call.
And so they may be gruff with you, they may be short with you, but that’s not because of you or your organization. That’s because maybe their boss just said something to them or their wife or whatever, like you have no idea. So to just not take things too personally,

Nicole: I think that’s a really good reminder too [00:23:00] when people are making those asks because it can be so intimidating that it’s like, so that conversation may not have gone as well, or as expected as you might have had imagined, but yes.

Susan: Try again and again. You just dunno. Yeah. And again, we all are dealing with things like we are all busy. We all have priorities and things, in our lives and I think that you just don’t know what someone is top of their mind. And so when, especially when you call someone, you’re having a meeting with someone and you hadn’t seen them before.
Give people the benefit of the doubt. Again, at the end of the day, people for the most part are generally good and keep that focus and just try to be, authentic and honest and transparent like we talked about. And I think over, on the most part, you’ll do just fine.

Nicole: I love it. Thank you so much for joining me.
That was such a nice conversation and I think it’s brought me some. Some good reminders on how to proceed when I am [00:24:00] making some of those asks with my,

Susan: Yes, you can do it. That’s the most important thing is like you don’t get what, you don’t ask another thing. You don’t get what you don’t ask for, so you just never know.
But thank you so much for this opportunity, Nicole. It was really fun.

Nicole: Amazing.

Susan: Thanks so much, Susan.