Practicing Sustainability Through Data, Curiosity, and Care: A Conversation with Sheela Mahajan

Nicole: [00:00:00] Thank you so much for joining. I’m so excited to have this conversation with you. Sheila, if you could just introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your nonprofit journey, what led you into the work, and what keeps you inspired today?

Sheela: Thank you so much, Nicole. I’m really excited to be here today. Let’s see, my nonprofit journey is a little bit of a winding course, so my background actually is in neurobiology research and I thought I was gonna go down the research path, but something clicked in my brain at some point where I was like, I love research, but I don’t wanna do this for the rest of my life.
And what I decided to do was actually take a year off and take some time to myself to make that decision. And during that year off, what I decided to do was join the AmeriCorps. And so I did an AmeriCorps year for one year and simply fell in love with nonprofit work. The organization I was working with was of course fantastic, but just [00:01:00] something about.
Tying the work that you’re doing to having an impact really spoke to me, especially after years of doing research where you could be working on a project for years and never really see an outcome. So this was really mind changing for me, and that really kicked me off on my journey. Today. I think I’m most inspired by the need that is out there.
I think when I first started working with nonprofit organizations, there was this line that organizations were saying of we are working so that our organization doesn’t have to exist anymore. And I haven’t heard that in a long time, and I think it’s because we’ve realized that. The end point isn’t coming anytime soon that we need to build for sustainability and that solutions are gonna look different.
And I think it means nonprofits working alongside, not simply working themselves out of a job, but figuring out [00:02:00] innovative ways to stay involved and ensure that everyone gets what they need.

Nicole: I love that. I think there’s something really. Because I have definitely thought that like we should be working ourselves out of a job.
But you’re right, we need to be thinking about, there’s always going to be a need. It might not be the need that we’re currently experiencing today, but there is always a need for supporting systems and people and. Humanity. So I do feel you’re right, there is something that we need to think through on how to be sustainable, collaborate more with, social innovators and trying to really think throughout or differently how we operate.
Because in my opinion, I don’t think what we’re doing now is. What it is. I think we need to still be thinking differently about how we’re doing this work. Yeah. So I’d love to hear what lights you up in this space. Like you, you’ve been in the sector for a while now and I’d love to hear what keeps you motivated?

Sheela: Yeah. The thing that keeps me motivated right now, I think it [00:03:00] is really bridging my two worlds together. So I mentioned I have a scientific background and I feel like these days there is a real curiosity for how can we use data to make better decisions. What information is out there? We are going beyond simply putting in inputs and hoping for the best to where we’re saying, okay, we’re doing all the right things.
How can we optimize this to now start to see a greater impact? And I find that really exciting. I think we’re starting to inch our way out of let’s just grind, grind, grind. And that’s what our sector is gonna be about to saying. Now we have tools, we have research available to us.
We can start to make some smarter decisions and have a greater impact while we’re at it. I mean, we’re moving slowly. I don’t think that the, that grind mindset is gonna go away anytime soon. But we’re getting there. And I think being a part of that process and doing what I can to support the [00:04:00] sector in getting there is what really, it keeps me up at night.
It wakes me up in the morning, gets me really pumped for the work that we do.

Nicole: That’s really interesting. I do think the nonprofit space has very much been that grind culture. A labor of love kind of, right? Yeah. So you just throw your entire self into it and sometimes you don’t stop to look at the big.
Picture or see what other nonprofits are doing, you’re just kind of in your lane and you zone in. So I think it’s really important that we do look at the bigger picture, the data. There’s years of it now, and I love that there’s people like you doing that work, because it is crucial for us to start to think differently, start to actually work on that sustainability model on what this could look like.
What are the challenges of those spaces that you’re finding?

Sheela: That’s such a great question. The challenge is abound in our sector, but the thing that I think is really what I’m struggling to work through is [00:05:00] figuring out a way to convince people in our sector that failure isn’t a bad thing that, trying something new even if it doesn’t work out.
You are learning something and the tough thing is it’s cyclical because funders are funding outcomes and if you’re writing a grant and you’re saying, we are going to do X, Y, Z, and this is the outcome that we’re expecting, it’s essentially a scientific experiment. You’re saying, we think that if we do this, then this is gonna happen, but we don’t know for sure.
It may not work for every person that you serve or however your program is designed, right? So it’s presented as a hypothesis to the funder, but they are only gonna support you for a successful experiment, and that’s not how it works, you know? And so I think. The tough thing with that is then nonprofits get into a cycle of saying, okay, well we have to get this [00:06:00] outcome.
And so we know this works to get there. We’re not gonna try anything else because the money is in this particular pathway. And so what that ends up happening, what ends up happening is. We are not encouraged to try new things, and so there could be other solutions out there that we’re just completely unaware of.
And so I think to me that’s the biggest challenge right now that we face in the sector, is finding a way to allow a reasonable amount of experimentation and a reasonable amount of failure while still being able to support the work that does bring about those outcomes that we want.

Nicole: It’s so true. I’ve seen a few times now there’s great theory of change concepts and I think some of them like, and we don’t even talk about them after, so there’s a theory of change.
It goes to the funder, they get the reports and all the hard work that goes into sharing the data and the impact that they’ve seen. Oftentimes [00:07:00] they’re also only saying things that actually tick to the direction that they’ve said it was going to. But we don’t talk about any of those reports after they like sit on a shelf.
No one gets to see them. We’re not sharing them with our other nonprofit colleagues in different sectors, within different spaces, within different charities. I feel like we should almost like crack those open and say, this actually worked well, this piece right here, and then maybe we can like cobble them together to make something that’s actually, or potentially a new pathway or shared learning.
I feel like that’s one of the big missing pieces too, is that shared learning approach to these things. We stay in like our organization and we rarely look out of it to see what other organizations are doing or we don’t even have the opportunity to. Hear how the other organizations did something or the challenges or failures or successes they’ve seen in their projects.
And I think we just need to think a little differently and crack those things open. I love what you’ve [00:08:00] shared. Do you have any like insights or resources that could help with that piece or anything entirely, but I just feel like I love where you’re going with this idea.

Sheela: Yeah. You know. Two things come to mind.
One is, the way that we approach problem solving at the Nonprofit Science Institute is highly derived from the scientific method and. I think that if it works for you, I think it’s a really helpful way of approaching problem solving. And so it’s seven steps. It’s, signals and it’s, it starts with being really specific about what a, what the problem is that you’re trying to solve.
And then it goes on to say, interrogate your assumptions. So, you know, what are we assuming by. The approach that we’re taking. So for instance, one of my like big pet peeves is this idea of best practices. ’cause to me, I’m like best practices for who is it really working for? [00:09:00] But at the same time, every organization is so unique that how can we really make these blanket statements?
But, so I can go on a whole soapbox about the best practices, but interrogate your assumption. So how are you, what is driving your decision making? Generate a hypothesis of say, okay, this is what we know, this is what we don’t know. This is, given that information, here’s a reasonable path forward.
And then narrow down to an experiment that you can do. So something, a one variable, a very small test you can do. And, follow that by analyzing your results and thinking about. Not just what did or didn’t happen in terms of was your hypothesis supported or not? But like we were saying with theory of change, really crack it open and say, okay, did we get what we wanted to get?
But also what were the other outcomes that came with that? So emergent outcomes could be something like, outcomes that are in favor of the path that you’re going towards, but there also could be [00:10:00] unintended consequences. So think thinking about that, not just did we end up where we wanted to go, but what else surrounded that I think is really important.
And then learn from it, right? So the Ellen signals is learning and then deciding, do we wanna scale this approach? Or did, if it didn’t work, let’s just scrap it and start over. So I think that’s a, like a really simple framework to help you really scientifically think through problem solving.
And another resource that I think is just really helpful. Honestly, I think there are so many amazing podcasts that are out there it’s like you have an expert in your ear. And so for anyone who like maybe hasn’t, dived into the world of podcast quite yet, I think there are amazing ones out there.
Of course I love the one with, Tasha and Evan. I think that’s really, a really good one. But also, hailey Cooper, I think has one called the Lead With Heart. There’s a small nonprofit podcast. I have one called the Nonprofit Science Podcast, if that is your take on it. But I think there’s a lot [00:11:00] of really amazing information out there that is totally free and you can absorb it totally passively.

Nicole: I love that. I’m curious, you mentioned something about. The, , kind of experimenting. I often find though, that nonprofits aren’t really given the flexibility to experiment. So how are you finding space or, opportunities to do some of these experiments? Sometimes, as I said earlier, you’re stuck in your lane or the board is giving this specific narrative or a funder saying, this is the path that we’ve agreed to, and don’t stray from that.
How do you create those little experiments within your organization and potentially learn from the failures or successes, but it’s that failure piece. I think that we aren’t given the flexibility to talk about celebrate, learn from.

Sheela: Yeah, that’s such a good question. And I’m glad you touched on that because I think when we hear the word experiment, we’re thinking of a grand [00:12:00] test.
Yeah. We’re thinking we are gonna change how we run the program from, start to finish. To me, I think that’s a really big risk. And so I worked within nonprofit organizations for years before starting to consult, and. One thing that I know to be true is that you just don’t have the safety net to take on such a big experiment to say, we’re gonna try this completely new program.
We don’t know if it’s gonna work, and we’re just gonna see what happens. No funder’s gonna support that, unless they’re gonna support like a pilot program or something. But that’s pretty rare. So to me, I think. Experimentation in our field is like these tiny mini experiments, and we see this in fundraising a lot.
You can do like an AB test for communications where like you’re changing, the header or you’re changing one small tweak in an appeal letter and you’re comparing what happens. But I think that that methodology can go throughout your entire nonprofit. So if you’re [00:13:00] doing like a program evaluation, don’t scrap the whole program evaluation.
Start with maybe changing one question and see how two cohorts respond to it. If you’re thinking about leadership, don’t decide you’re gonna be a completely new leader. Try a new communication method and see if that works. Or, yeah, take a new approach, but make it really small and bite-sized so that you’re not uprooting the work of your organization.
You’re just making these really small incremental changes that over time you’re gonna get a lot of data from it, and you’ll see that you can use that data to then drive your decisions moving forward.

Nicole: Brilliant. I love that. I think sometimes, you’re right. It’s unnerving almost to think of changing the entire, like not system, but the entire project and

Sheela: absolutely

Nicole: loving the idea of just like changing an evaluation, changing an approach like small steps to see potential big change or yeah, potential learnings.
I love that. Thank you for that. [00:14:00] My last question, and we obviously have met through the nonprofit hive, so I’d love to hear how conversations or connections through the nonprofit hive have shaped your perspective. This could be a person that you met an idea. I’d love to hear some of the stories you have from the nonprofit hive.

Sheela: Oh yeah. So the nonprofit hive in a lot of ways has been like. The one meeting a week that I can truly look forward to. It’s always fun. It’s always, just you get to learn so much about, what’s happening in the field. For background, what I do is I’m focused a lot on content creation. My work is focused on translating academic research, making that information practical and usable for nonprofits.
So that being said, talking to people who are with nonprofits and within nonprofits is really useful for me because I can get my finger on the pulse of what are the problems people are facing right now and what research [00:15:00] is out there that I can connect them with that is gonna help them solve that problem.
So that’s one way that it’s been just really meaningful, for my work. But I think honestly, the thing that I get the most out of nonprofit hive is just speaking with people who get it. My friends and family are not in the nonprofit space. Being, in the kind of consulting, independent space.
There, I don’t have like a team of people that like I work in an office with, so that kind of comradery, it just doesn’t happen. But with nonprofit Hive, I get to meet people who, sometimes it’s really great and we click and we’re talking about work. Other times it’s just, gosh, did you hear that headline today?
What is happening in the world? And you just get that moment of connection. So I just can’t say enough good stuff about nonprofit Hive I’ve gotten so just, I think sometimes it’s even like hard to really pinpoint like, what’s the one thing I get out of it? Because there’s so much. But those small moments of connection are truly just, they can make my week.[00:16:00]

Nicole: Yeah. I love that Tasha and I talk about it often, like our families, loved ones all also are not in the nonprofit space and it’s like, mom, I just don’t understand what we’re talking about. So I fully agree with you. I think it, it is a nice landing spot, especially when you work from home or, have your own business where it’s just a solopreneur kind of thing.
So Sheila, thank you so much. I love the conversation. I’m really excited about the work you’re doing and the direction that you’re going with it. And I think, I look forward to seeing what research and data you, continue to bring to the sector. So thank you so much.

Sheela: Oh, wonderful. So glad to chat with you, Nicole.
Thank you so much.

Nicole: Have a great day.

Sheela: Thanks, you too.

Nicole: Bye.