Transforming Workplace Wellness for Nonprofit Leaders with Leah Marone

Tasha: Good morning. Could you please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your nonprofit origin story?

Leah Marone: Yeah, good morning. , my name is Leah Marone and I’m based in Charlotte, North Carolina. I am a psychotherapist by trade, social worker worked in many nonprofits.

And at this stage of the game, I still maintain a practice where I specialize in do therapy with anxiety disorders and mood disorders. But my other hat is more consulting and speaking and mainly to Professions such as nonprofit leaders and workers professions where it holds team members and employees that have high levels of compassion, empathy, and, maybe I’m making an assumption here, but I think that kind of probably can categorize 95 percent of nonprofits.

People in the nonprofit field. So with that, it’s a wonderful gift, to have those high levels of empathy and compassion. But with that, I mean, if I’m just blunt, I feel like people such as us that have that are really not that great at boundary setting. And we can talk the talk and we are constantly checking in on people and asking, how are you, what are you doing, how are you taking care of yourself, but we have this extremely different set of expectations for ourselves, and we kind of bulldoze past what we need, what we know we need to be doing to kind of be proactive, even with our self care and resets and recovery. And so my role, I think, especially at this juncture with nonprofits and with leaders is. To go a bit deeper in the psychological components of, kind of our inner workings of what prevents us from actually doing that and kind of moving into this intense cycle of compassion, fatigue, and burnout, and just losing our good talent left and right.

And our, and those people that, are in the nonprofits are just either, have met kind of almost that crash and burn, if you will, and are just. Flat out leaving or leaving just people to do what should be a job for three people. So that’s kind of my mission is to really provide that space for people that are providing space left and right on so many levels for other people and really get to the deeper levels of, What are your inner workings?

What are your inner resistors? And kind of those bodyguards that are preventing you from taking care of yourself on that level.

Tasha: I love that. And one of the pieces, I love the phrase and I try to use it every once in a while, but who is caring for the people who care and and that there’s, I know when I was, uh, previously working with a compassion fatigue and burnout, keynote speaker in the past, she would talk about who’s helping the helpers, right.

Especially she was really focused in on social workers, hospital, that kind of field. And I think it very much applies to the nonprofit sector. I haven’t talked to a single person yet who I was like, this is one of the most passionate people I’ve ever met in my life.

Who is. Truly sacrificing a lot of their own opportunities in order to change the world. And I think there’s a lot of the general public. I know lots of my family members that I’ve talked to who have no idea, right. And think that this is just, Oh, this person’s volunteering five hours a week, not giving up everything in the pursuit of changing the world.

So I love that there’s so much. People like you out there who’s backing up the people who care that I think that’s incredible. What a wonderful piece of work to be doing. And, I know you already started to kind of hint at some of this, but. What are some of the unique challenges that maybe exist within nonprofit work, social impact work that might be different than people potentially in hospital, a hospital setting, even though there is crossover and similarities.

Leah Marone: Yeah, I think a big component is just, a lot of times when you are in hospital settings, when you’re in a different setting, there sometimes is a natural set of boundaries and structures already mapped out. Yeah. Within the nonprofit world, sometimes there’s not, and you’re creating your own or attempting to create your own.

And you can see how that’s almost this perfect recipe for it to really invade every crack and crevice of who you are. And I think what we find is that That, a lot of the parts of us that, that are able to find kind of that presence and peace and fun in a different way, seem to be like left dormant they’re, not, we’re not able to access them and create that kind of intrinsic balance, if you will, to be a little abstract.

And so I’m seeing a lot of that, of just. That kind of, I don’t even want to say negligence, but just kind of bulldozing over those opportunities and necessities to really create some of those boundaries and structure. And I think what interferes with that is that fierce inner pleaser of no.

If I don’t do X, Y, and Z, then these people are going to suffer. If I don’t do X, Y, and Z, then I’m going to look like I don’t care as much, or my passion might go away or it’ll be diffused. And it’s this all or nothing thinking where it’s like, We have to meet our different parts in the middle and we have to, honor it all and that’s a tall thing.

But once we start talking about that and exploring that, I think from that different level I think I’ve seen some really good results with people that are able to soothe that part of them that is operating with

Tasha: urgency and comes from a really good place. It does come from a really good place. And. I think there’s a, sometimes there’s a core personality component there, as well as probably you’ve been reinforcing it your entire life.

Right. And people who serve others, who have a life of service, it’s been compounding potentially since, I don’t know, I’ve met people who are like, Oh, I come from a family who’s been doing girl guides for generations. So there’s, there’s a little bit. I am sure among some social impact professionals that this is the life has a martyrdom complex to it.

And we very much held onto that belief within the sector that’s okay. And the other piece that I’m seeing that’s kind of interesting is there’s the expectation that nonprofit leaders will create the boundaries for their staff, which they should be doing, but they’re not even creating boundaries for themselves.

So it’s kind of a little bit of a They don’t they haven’t even got boundaries in place for their level of work. It’s kind of almost a little bit of an unrealistic expectation to then go, I can do this for everyone else when I’m not even doing it as the leader

Leah Marone: putting it in place. And it does. I think it takes like anything, it takes a lot of practice.

It takes, and I kind of refer to this a lot and I know it’s comes from more of an athletic background, but like you have to get your reps in, you have to get those repetitions and reps in to soothe those parts of you. Because a lot of times those parts are like no, you need to work, 60 plus hours a week.

You need to make that extra run here. You need to do this or contact this. It, It’s soothing that part that wow, if I did take a pause, even if it’s a short amount, if I did do this for myself, if I did do this type of maintenance, once you start doing that a few times and almost experimenting with it and realize that, that there’s not these major catastrophic, consequences, you might actually feel a bit better and a little more energized.

That part of you starts to quiet down a little bit, right? It’s, but it’s this whole like reconditioning. And I think it’s also the big part I’ve seen that’s sometimes lacking is, even when it comes to internal validation and having practice with validating intrinsically, like our efforts, what we’re doing, we’re, again, I think, people with high levels of empathy and the nonprofit work so good at making connections and validating other people and what they’re doing and very specific.

It’s strength based, but again, not a whole lot of practice with doing that internally. And there’s sometimes this scramble to get that external validation of I’m doing enough, right? I’m doing this and this, and that’s very human, but there’s nothing really coming from inside or it’s not ever good enough.

And you can see where that’s just a really tough recipe to keep

Tasha: up. It is. So the one thing I was going to ask because we’ve kind of talked about some of the challenges, but what’s your favorite part of working with people who are in this sector?

What do you love about nonprofit work?

Leah Marone: I mean, and I’m going to say it a little selfishly at first, but I think conversations that I have especially with nonprofit leader, I first, I just feel like we kind of cut right to this very real intimate level. Conversationally, there’s not kind of this dance of Hey, let me set you up and let me do this.

And let me do it. I love that. It’s just, I feel like right off the bat, it’s just cutting to it. And there’s this authenticity and vulnerability. And I think, it’s just ah, I’m with my people. It’s just really, it’s very cool. So I think I talk about myself and my own view and kind of what I soak up and hopefully give off is just that.

Let’s relate, let’s get intimate and let’s cut the bullshit, and so I think that’s really very cool. And so I think that’s a big part of it. Uh, I also love just the passion. I love the passion around I’m not just living for me. And my own in this little circle, like I know that what I can do, what I can give and what I can provide can reach an extended amount of people.

Even if I’m doing this much, I’m kind of planting these seeds. I’m setting off this spark. And I love that vision on the macro level. And I think that’s something too, that’s really empowering because it’s very selfless, and of course I’m helping them kind of regain some of that selfishness and a good way to balance it so they can keep it up.

But I love that vision of just no, there’s bigger things and I can be a part of it even if I’m this big.

Tasha: Absolutely. I think there’s a deep desire. Societally to be part of something right and part of the impact and that’s probably, the marketer in me says that nonprofit is not marketing itself well to the rest of society of what it provides, but I think it’s that is the value proposition sometimes is, I think, a lot of us, there’s a deep Level of apathy largely, and people are feeling a little apathetic, but they want to feel passionate.

And sometimes it’s that surrounding yourself with other passionate people reignites your passion and it reminds you why you do what you do, what, the reasons that you love the work potentially, and I find, like you said, the conversations that come out of. Being a part of the social impact sector make me go, well, why can’t we do this?

Like any of the negativity in social media and on, I sometimes I’m like, we can solve this and people will wonder why I’m optimistic, but it’s because of the change makers that I talked to that I go, I think we got this. I mean, it’s going to be hard work for sure, but I think there’s a lot of.

Hope in this sector, right? It’s a lot of hope feelings of deep

Leah Marone: feelings of hope. And that strong desire to, for connection, like in a different way. Yeah,

Tasha: absolutely. Absolutely. So peer support either professionally for yourself or within the sector or, contemporaries that are talking about some of these same topics that your self care boundary setting, all of those pieces within.

Nonprofit, how does peer support kind of factor into your, uh, success with your work?

Leah Marone: Yeah I think a big, yeah, a big part of it. And I think for me, just even being a clinician and kind of that space creator for other space creators, you’re you hit it right on the head. I’ve had to be very mindful of that because a lot of the work I’ve found that it can be very isolating, especially with therapy.

I mean, I’m meeting with people, but it’s a very different, very different vibe, a very different, relationship. And so I think moving into working collaboratively with people and kind of, supporting the nonprofit sector and all of that, like it’s, it, that’s helped me, I think, with my risk of compassion, fatigue, and burnout.

And to your point Seeing that passion and soaking up some of that passion and hoping to give some of that back. So I think that is a big part of just that peer support. Having certain situations where you can, be real and kind of have those moments where you can vent, but that you also have a variety on your plate where you do have those go to people, those go to environments, where you feel then empowered, you feel like you can reset, but then you can also be real and kind of, Let some of that, the frustrations and things that are stagnating you out.

That’s so important.

Tasha: Yeah. The decompressing part is huge. Right. And I think the conversation I’ve known the term psychological safety for some time, because of working with someone who was in, compassion fatigue and burnout, but it’s interesting to watch it kind of catching on right now in the nonprofit sector and everyone realizing that within teams, psychological safety, when stress is really high, when boundaries are low.

Psychological safety is not a feature that is necessarily, uh, in all nonprofit teams. It’s great. I hear some teams that are wonderful. And, but I also hear of a lot of teams where we had one of our members the other day, it was like, we’re down to five of 15 and somehow senior leadership doesn’t understand why everyone’s leaving still, but we can’t even, we feel like we can’t even tell them, can’t even tell them.

Right. So. That to me is pretty, it’s pretty scary. And so I think peer support in this sector is critically important, not only for more frontline workers and people who are maybe more hands on in the work, but also for leadership. They also need it because I think that’s the only way potentially they might be able to understand or figure out how to have some of those conversations or promote a better work environment is through someone who’s.

At the same level as them, talking about it too.

Leah Marone: Absolutely. And again, just with any, across the board, regardless of what sector you’re in corporate nonprofit, like just that leadership and what being mindful of what you are modeling, right. Cause people are watching, you’re not verbals and when you’re responding and how you’re responding and not that’s about perfection and always being on.

But I think to your point, like I’ve done so much. several trainings on just like, how do you give and receive critical feedback? Because a lot of times there’s this intense hesitation, especially if we have fierce interpleasers that are like, well, we don’t want to do any damage. Well, we’ll just accommodate.

Well, we don’t want to have conflict. Well, we don’t want to do that, but it’s killing a lot of nonprofits because then it’s everything’s hush. And we just keep going. And we internalize. And it’s again, another thing that I think scares me. Feeding into this whole I’m out. I can’t do this anymore.

And so just some trainings and repetitions, again, on how do you give and be direct with some things that are not working? And how do you share that? And how do you share that effectively? And then how do you receive it? And, that’s a huge cultural shift, but I think that’s incredibly lacking.

especially in the nonprofit sector. People are just kind of dancing around things and it’s not even, it’s just well, we have a great culture, but we’re also like shoving things under the rug all the time.

Tasha: I find I even, I’ll write a slightly spicier LinkedIn post and consultants who used to be in house jump all over it and are like, that was my experience.

And then I get probably about the same amount of private direct messages from people who are like, I can’t comment on this because I still work here. But this is, it’s so interesting.

Leah Marone: Yeah,

Tasha: so interesting to see how it’s playing out right now and which brings me back to, very thankful that you’ve joined the nonprofit hive.

I’ve gotten a lovely feedback from people about, your work and the conversations you’re bringing because. It is a safe place for them to kind of discuss some of these things that they’re experiencing whether they’re now consultants are still in house and, what have you gotten out of being a member of this community so far?

Leah Marone: I think some incredible conversations. That is just the first, the skinny of it great conversations. I think again, just a front row seat to just some of the passion and different work and diversity of work that, the nonprofit sector holds. And so just feeling privileged to hear some of the nitty gritties of that and Oh, wow, you’re doing that work in Atlanta.

You’re doing that work in Pittsburgh. You’re doing that. I mean, it’s just, it’s a privilege, I think to just see and hear These things are happening. Like these things on this level are happening. And so that’s just really cool for me to be able again, have kind of a front row seat to that in 30 minutes we meet.

And also, I think I really valued just being able to Kind of create that space for again, people that, that are creating space all the time, every day for everybody else. And so I’m really trying to give back in that way, even if it is just a short conversation, really gear it towards tell me about you, you don’t have to take care of me here.

I want to hear about you. So I think that’s been a privilege as well. I love that. Well,

Tasha: you very, I feel very blessed that you’ve jumped in on this community and are bringing those conversations. And. So Leah, how can people get in touch with you? Give us a quick blurb about like services directly that you offer for nonprofits and what does that look like?

Leah Marone: Yeah, thanks. So my website is leahmarone. com. And my email is leahatleahmarone. com. So you can definitely find me there or find more about me there. And honestly It’s really, I, just as I do as a clinician, I like to meet the team or organization where they’re at. So there is kind of that quick assessment, if you will initially.

And I like to ask questions that are challenging, that are kind of throw them off that are intimate in nature and really get to the root of things and not again, just perpetuate a cycle of maybe glossing over and just like feeding out like, Oh, try this. It’s I want people to walk away with more self awareness and some, just the deeper psychological levels around what’s happening, whether it’s an individual leadership basis or if it’s just the culture of a team.

So that consulting piece can look a lot of different ways. It can also come in the shape of, just even workshops, a series of workshops on feedback on, kind of aligning with your inner parts and your inner pleasers and kind of creating those internal boundaries to create those external.

So a lot of workshops and education around that too, but. It comes in a lot of forms, just like what everybody else is doing. Right. And the nonprofit world.

Tasha: I love that. That’s, and the flexibility I think is just what’s needed in this sector. And so I think this is great. I love how you move in the world and this is wonderful. Thank you so much for doing this with me. And yeah, I mean, you said so many brilliant things just during this short chat, so I’m very thankful that you’ve joined the nonprofit hive.

Leah Marone: No, well, I’m so glad I found you and thank you for what you’re doing and just creating this space. And I know that’s been so helpful for me and other people. So we’re happy to do this today. Thank you. Amazing.