Building Stronger Nonprofit Leaders with Kathy Archer: A Journey from Burnout to Empowerment

Tasha: [00:00:00] Good afternoon. Thank you for being here. And can you tell us a little bit more today about yourself and your nonprofit origin story?

Kathy: Ooh, yes. So leadership development coach, I have been doing this for about.

14 years, but I definitely did not start out as a leadership development coach. My story started way back in, college and university. College first. I took child and youth care and so I started working in group homes with adolescents. Okay. And, kids who had been apprehended we’re talking about, not such great circumstances for a lot of them.

I moved from that into doing a little bit of work with people with disabilities, and then I spent the bulk of my career in what’s known as family support, so parenting skills, taking, again, all circled around the child welfare kind of world. Kids who had been apprehended or the potential to be apprehended and working with the parents and teaching those parenting skills.

I very [00:01:00] quickly moved up into leadership, so was, leading the group of people that were doing that work. Our roles expanded and the work we were doing expanded, we ended up getting a, a really significantly larger contract. And it happened to be around the FASD world at the time, so we were noticing that a lot of our parents were struggling themselves.

How do you parent a kid when you have your own issues? Right? And so we’re teaching them as if they, could understand everything based on, the basics of what we used to teach. And we realized it wasn’t working. So we got this big contract. Yeah, we expanded and we grew and my team grew and I was supervising more people and I was traveling more and raised more responsibilities and I fell apart.

And I learned from that. You and I were just talking about mission drift and drift from our values and while I said things I wasn’t doing them and my team said I was lacking integrity and a grievance was filed against me. And like it got pretty bad for a while and it [00:02:00] was that wake up call that I needed to be like, I’m not leading in a way I want to lead.

This isn’t effective for me. And it was when I started coaching that I went. Oh, it’s ’cause I’ve lost alignment with my values. So that’s where I started and the work I did when I was in the nonprofit sector. I love

Tasha: it. I love it. And having been doing this nonprofit hive thing for a while now, and I’ve met leaders all over the world, I.

I think what’s so interesting in this nonprofit world is we have the hope that we’re gonna serve more people, the team’s gonna grow, we’re gonna meet the need where it’s at, and the need is enormous. So the need keeps growing, the team keeps growing to meet the need, and at no point do most, leaders get.

The training they need to go. I like, I’m very fully transparent. I am a, like a lovely team player. Like I am great at team player work. I’m good with that. Being a leader is harder and I’ve seen my own challenges and struggles with it I can [00:03:00] imagine from a team of like, Hey, I managed three or four people to, oh my goodness, we have 20.

Yeah. Like that. Those are totally different environments and I don’t know that like most leaders, most individuals would be prepared to just move. No,

Kathy: no. We were just talking about my new book and part of it is the fundamentals of leadership that we were never taught. Yeah. And that’s why we struggle with imposter syndrome.

That’s why we get ourselves into trouble. Leadership is a. Personal development journey and a leadership journey kind of tucked in together. It’s that growth and it’s less about can I figure out how to manage a spreadsheet? Although many of us were never taught that, or we’re told you need to have staff meetings regularly and you need to do performance reviews, and you need to do one-to-one supervisions, but nobody taught us.

Okay. What do I do when I don’t like that person? Yeah. And they’re one of, that hard personality or when there’s conflict on the team or when I have to bring up something and address an issue, nobody’s taught us how to use the soft skills and so [00:04:00] we pull ourselves back or we’re the people pleasers or we get ourselves into trouble ’cause we’re not taught those skills.

Yeah. And often that’s the big skills we need to learn.

Tasha: Absolutely could not agree more. Could not agree more. So you’ve got this history background doing cool things now as well. What’s your favorite part about working in this sector?

Kathy: The people of course is, I’m sure everybody says, but I just got off my first call.

I’m doing a book club for my book and I just got off the first call with some lovely women. It’s those engaging conversations and this is the hive, like it’s a hundred percent the hive, right? You get people together and they’re like. Oh, you’re experiencing the same thing I am. Oh, you get it.

Yeah. And I just get tingles when they like connect and they see that I’m not the only one experiencing this. Yes. There’s not something wrong with me. There’s a way out and yeah, those, I do a lot of smaller group kind of work, communities of practice and just those kind of calls where you get a group of women together and they’re like, [00:05:00] ah, I found my place.

That’s the place that I love.

Tasha: You’re creating a community of permission to talk about some really hard stuff, right? And how often do we create this beautiful space for us to, sink into, I don’t think we do it nearly enough.

Kathy: No. It’s one of the things that I hear from people often is that I create that safe space for those difficult conversations and it’s just the space I love, right?

Like it’s, one thing that I do a lot of work in is strength-based leadership. We’ve learned leadership from a very archaic white old guy model that was brilliant and worked back then, doesn’t work so much anymore. And so we come into this space and we’re like thinking we should be leading this certain way and we’re not.

And so what are, what’s your leadership strengths? One of the ladies on the call, she says, I’m in a meeting and somebody asked me a question and I can’t answer it. But I can go away and think about it. And I’ll circle back with an answer. And I said, but that’s your superpower, is that you do think.

And she’s really? I’m like, not everybody has to [00:06:00] have the answer in the moment, but we think there’s something wrong with us if we don’t.

Tasha: Yeah.

Kathy: Right. So we’re, we have to find out what our strengths are and lead from those strengths. I think that’s fantastic.

Tasha: And we’ve already started to touch in on some challenges of this sector, what would be, whether it’s leadership focused or just in general, what do you see as one of the biggest challenges in social impact?

Kathy: You were talking just yesterday or something I see in a post you did about this. Scarcity, crisis driven field that we’re in. And that’s one of the biggest problems. And it’s, and yes it’s true, but that doesn’t mean we just take it and run with it. I think the, this oh my God, I gotta do this.

And the massive to-do list and the meeting to meeting and back to back and don’t have time for lunch and. Do you know, I talk about whacking the mole, right? Like we’re meeting an email and going go, go, and we just need to pause and just slow down and be more intentional. But I think , we’ve come to know the sector as that there’s not enough money, there’s not enough staff, there’s [00:07:00] not enough time, and it’s just that dream that we have.

Yeah. And we have to start seeing it a different way.

Tasha: I could not agree more. And I think so many of the, and going back even to your last comment, so many of the systems that we’ve put in place. They made sense, in a different time, but, oh my God. Okay, so the politics are different and the circumstances are different.

The need is different. And even talking with my partner who has to hear about nonprofit all the time, but is not in this sector and thinks we’re all a bunch of crazy people sometimes we were talking about how frequently. People don’t realize what nonprofit is covering, right?

Like for FASD community, you’d almost assume, the government does all of those things, right? Yeah. Yeah. But maybe they did, but then it got pushed over onto nonprofits. We accepted a new space, a new burden, but we didn’t get the resources. Yeah. To do, to be those people, right? Yeah. To be that, community of support.

We didn’t, that didn’t come along [00:08:00] with the role and with the

Kathy: responsibility. No. No, I think of the housing crisis right now. Yeah. , and we were just talking last night at a meeting, about, police officers or peace officers , cleaning up the homeless or how or unhoused people.

I said, but then what? Like, where do they go? What are they doing? Who’s helping them? And yeah, that’s not, like your hospital. That’s a nonprofit. Yeah, it’s a nonprofit and because they’re underfunded and understaffed and all these kind of things, they’re not able to do the work that.

That could be done if we were supported more, but that’s the mentality that we also have enough. I don’t have enough, I don’t have enough staff. And so we feel that crisis driven space all the time and yeah, it’s just not helpful framework.

Tasha: Yeah, absolutely. And when we were talking about homeless at different.

Points in time in society when there has been large homeless populations as well. The whole system was different , and , even talking about homelessness, , churches took on a lot of those things, but then churches are in a different [00:09:00] spot than they were, 50 years too.

And we have really have to look at it as a fulsome ecosystem. And what we’re doing. Correct?

Kathy: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I think that’s, when I think of the nonprofit sector, I think that’s an issue. The other issue is the lack of planning for succession. And, charity Village did a podcast.

I was, interviewed for the podcast. And we were talking about, , first is. We have, again, a lot of men in higher positions. Yeah. , And women aren’t moving up. And what is that? What’s going on there? And a couple things, right? Like we just don’t believe we have it. That’s part of our own makeup and that self-doubt.

But also there’s a lot of next in line leaders who look at the leadership and say. I don’t want that. It’s crisis driven. It’s crazy. I see how many hours my boss is putting in. I have no desire to do that work. Yeah. And so we’ve gotta figure out how to shift that burden at the top so that we’re creating space for the next.

Set of leaders, it’s often my mission. people say, [00:10:00] why do I do the work I do? I hope to change the face of leadership for my granddaughters. Right? I don’t think we’re gonna change it in the next generation. I think this is gonna take some work, but I hope by the time my granddaughters are in leadership positions that it’s a little bit different.

Tasha: That’s fantastic. And we do have to be planning for, yeah. The plan is for the sector to still be here. Maybe it looks different, but, how do we start thinking about how we want it to be different too? Yeah. Yeah. I love this. I love this. Okay, so one of the questions I always ask very much based on how we started the whole Hive idea, but how has peer support factored in.

To your journey as a leader, and what has that looked like for you?

Kathy: Yeah, so back in the day when I think about, being in a leadership position, I very much felt alone. I was geographically isolated, so that did not help. But I remember there was. Five of us in our community that got together for sort of breakfast meetings and they were much older women than me, very nurturing.

[00:11:00] And I look, I still have connections with those women and I look back and I’m like, I didn’t realize how important that was at the time. Yeah. , And what it gave me. , But there was then this big gap. I had a couple peers in my organization that, I could pick up the phone and call and stuff, but.

But there was this big gap when I moved into being a consultant. Then again, it felt very much alone. The internet has been a wonderful place to connect and do that. When I look in the last couple years, cOVID hit and then I went into this deep dive into my book. So my book has taken, this is my second book.

It’s taken a while to get out there, but I knew when it started coming out, that’s when I started doing the hive chats. I’m like, oh my God, I need to get out and connect with people.

Tasha: Yeah. And.

Kathy: So the connections in the hive and just general connections that I’ve been doing have broadened who I’m talking to, the conversations I’m having, they’ve reinforced what I’m, the work I’m doing, but also given me new insights and new ideas and, just lovely conversations in the middle of a day that sometimes I didn’t [00:12:00] know I needed that, but I needed that.

And it’s important.

Tasha: It’s so important. And I can imagine too, for those of us who are on our leadership journey, as lovely as it is to have mentors, I do think, it’s the stumbling along the way sometimes with others that you can go, oh man, did you have this problem recently?

Because this is where I’m at and I totally flopped. And the chances are that they’re having some of those same experiences too. And there’s some. There’s some comfort in that, knowing there are others who are in the same spot as you.

Kathy: Yeah. When I’m doing community of practice, sometimes I’ll ask a question and there’s 15 ladies on or something and somebody will be like, oh, I have a difficult person I’m dealing with.

And all of a sudden the chat’s , I’ve got one of those and somebody else is I got one of those. And it doesn’t necessarily change it other than it, again, you recognize it’s not just me and there’s nothing wrong with me. Everybody has to deal with prickly people sometimes, or, strong personalities or however you define it.

Tasha: Sometimes you have that need, that like little [00:13:00] reminder from someone else. I got checked recently by a friend when I was complaining about something where she’s like. Come on man. And I’m like, yes. Right? Like you need those people right to sometimes call you out. ’cause , it is hard and sometimes you’re just complaining.

And that was honestly some of the hilarious premise behind the nonprofit hive where I was going, oh my goodness. All these folks really need a place to safely come and talk about what’s hard in nonprofit. Yeah. Because I think there is something beautiful that happens when we talk about the hard, we also get reminded of a lot of good stuff that we are too bogged down in.

To see, when we’re Yeah. In the work deeply.

Kathy: The model that I teach talks about shifting perspectives it’s hard to shift perspectives in your own little bubble. Yeah. You need somebody else’s. You might still, yeah, both complain and recognize you’re in the same place, but somebody else might go, oh, but this is what I tried, or somebody said this, or I noticed that.

And you’re like, oh, that’s interesting. Or a book, here’s a book I’m reading, or, here’s a podcast I listen to. And you just get some new insights.

Tasha: [00:14:00] Absolutely. I honestly rarely go out looking to cultivate my own resources anymore. I very much just go, who? Yeah, who’s talking about this out of my friends?

And you get that list of folks who you’re constantly going, oh, they’re always looking into different things that I don’t have time or energy or whatever too. So I think that’s so special and important. I looked up. You’ve taken 20 hive chats since you started to join us. I know. It’s amazing.

So 20 people just, Kathy’s in there saying hi, talking to people, which I love. And I was gonna say, I think too, like you’ve hit up. At least five countries. Yes, at least five. Which is so great too. Like I love that

Kathy: It’s funny you were talking about your partners sometimes at the end of the day, ’cause I coach people globally and stuff as well, and I’ll be like, I had this culture and this person and this country and like it, it’s so different than what some people experience.

Yeah. And I just think you have such, a broader perspective when you talk to [00:15:00] people outside of your normal little. Community.

Tasha: Absolutely. Absolutely. I was gonna say, you already answered it, but my last question is always like, what have you gotten out of being a member of the nonprofit?

Hive

Kathy: I think the connections, the awareness of what other people growing through. We were talking earlier, Tasha, about. Just that sense of purpose. And I think there’s something, when you come to the HI chats or when you talk to other people, you feel part of something bigger than yourself.

I was watching the news this morning and I finally just shut it off. I’m like, I can’t do this. Right? Yeah. , But I can come to a call with somebody else and talk about some of those hard things that are happening in the world and you just feel like, oh, okay, we can make a difference here. Or, I’m not like, just in this little world, there’s a bigger world.

So I think it’s. Broaden that perspective for me, it’s helped get the word out about my book as well. Like more and more people are knowing about it. My work, I’m looking to be on podcasts so people are like, oh, I know somebody you can do, or, it’s just building those connections.

I’ve got referrals from people that I’ve had conversations [00:16:00] with. , So it’s certainly growing my work. Yeah. But I don’t specifically come to them to grow my work. I come to them because I’m like, I like being a part of a community bigger than myself. I.

Tasha: It’s a really generous group of humans, right?

And this is why we brought and allowed consultants to join and ’cause we said, Hey, come obviously talk about your work. You’ve got this huge background that many of our members are just starting in nonprofit or. Founders or are on that leadership growth journey. Yeah. And you can share so much with those individuals as well.

Yeah. So

Kathy: I love it. But also consultant to consultant, right? Like sometimes you hop on a call with somebody else and they’re, ahead of you or they’re looking for a technology or yeah, you can just go, oh yeah, it’s tough being a consultant some days

it’s

Tasha: wonderful. Love it. Love it. So. How can people reach you? Where are you most found? Tell us a little bit about, services that you offer as well.

Kathy: Yeah. I’m Kathy with a KD as in Diane Archer everywhere. So any of the [00:17:00] socials, you can find me at Kathy d Archer, so it’s easy enough.

My website is kathy archer.com. My favorite place is to hang out is often Instagram, but LinkedIn is becoming more and more my place to, to be too, so , I’m finding that place. I teach coach and mentor women leaders in the nonprofit space, so one-to-one coaching. If people are looking for leadership coaching, I do group training and organizations all virtual.

Everything I do is virtual. I have a membership. My membership is, we were talking about we move into leadership without the skills.

Tasha: Yeah. My

Kathy: membership teaches the skills. A lot of it is the soft skills that we’ve missed. The emotional intelligence. There’s stuff on time management and supervising staff.

My membership is the training library. It’s priced at 1997 a month, Canadian. So it’s like really low bar because what I find is a lot of women are coming in without their organization knowing. Yeah, they don’t wanna stick up their hand and tell their boss, I need help. They don’t wanna ask their board to fund something.

So this gets them in the door to build that [00:18:00] confidence and competence that they’ve lacked to do the work. So that’s there. And then my second book. Character driven leadership is out anywhere. You buy books, Amazon, Barnes and Nobles Audible. My first book, mastering Confidence is there as well. That’s the gist of what I do.

Tasha: I love it. Thank you so much for doing this with me, Kathy, and, just deeply appreciate you being part of our community.

Kathy: Yeah, thank you, Tasha.