Reinvention, Resilience, and the Power of Coaching: A Conversation with Gordon Goldschleger

Tasha: [00:00:00] Good morning.
Could you please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your nonprofit origin story?

Gordon: Tasha, that’s great. Thank you for having me. My name is Gordon Goldschleger. I’m the founder of Leaders Who Break Barriers Executive Coaching and Consulting based out of here in Toronto. And my origin story or my not-for-profit origin story moves something like chapters or software releases, in the software industry.
So my first release of 1.0 into the world. The software didn’t work so well. Things were broken, but because I was working in manufacturing and distribution and there was no impact to be had, there was no social good. And I got up every day going, is this what people do? Because I needed to run the other way.
It was horrible. And, so I quit a really good paying job at a public company and people told me You’re crazy. And that was not gonna be the first time that I heard you’re crazy. And Gore 2.0 came out. So better features, better benefits to the world. [00:01:00] I moved into the not-for-profit industry. And worked on the ground and consulting, which was really great.
It was a great run for a bit. But then I was like, you know what, I need to quit. And, so I quit without anything and I was out for 16 months and people said, you guessed it. You’re crazy. I was like, yes, I’ve heard this before. Don’t worry. It’s gonna work out. And Gore 3.0 has just come out, which is, you know, so far it’s.
There’s still less bugs, but there are better features. I’m on my own, I’m running my own consulting shop. And look, I’m not super young, but I’m, you know, people said, you’re doing this at 55, you’re a bit crazy. I said, yes, I know. I’ve been crazy twice, but it’s gonna work out. And, I’m trying to, take the best of all that I’ve learned in Gord 1.0 and Gord 2.0 and bring it to the world to be.
To help people, realize their dreams and do better in the world. And so that, that’s a bit of the Gord 1.0 to 3.0 story.

Tasha: I love this. My mom [00:02:00] has teased me in the past that she goes, well, you’re just my mom’s Jane. And she’s like, well, you’re Jane 2.0. You’re gonna take all the things that I.
Was sucking at, ’cause my mom’s like that community builder that I learned all the things from, but she’s like, you’re like me, but with better boundaries. And I was like, oh man, I don’t even think my boundaries are that great, Jane, but maybe my daughter will do it. She can be 3.0 and we’re moving the generations along.
But I love that you reinventing yourself and finding a place of work that brings such purpose to your life. ’cause I think I missed that in previous roles before I got into this sector too.

Gordon: Yeah, I think it takes a long time and I think, the lesson for me and for others who are following along is, it’s not easy, right?
And if you’ve got the right mindset, good things happen. But it’s very messy in the middle. I had young kids, I had a three and a 1-year-old, and I was out of work. It was not , a good time financially, but, I was committed to. I got, working careers are long, right?
Yeah. And if you’re so short termed, you can get up being [00:03:00] pigeonholed. So yeah, I’m really pleased that I’m able to, take all of the good from 1.0, all the learnings from 2.0 and deploy and look, there may even be a 4.0. ’cause , people are living a lot longer. Right.

Tasha: Still time.
There’s still time. You are like, there’s lots of time 4.0, I like this. Yeah.

Gordon: Yeah. You have to think in decades, I think, in terms of careers, right. And, yeah. I’m pleased with where I am, but it’s been a bit of a ride lately.

Tasha: Fantastic. Now tell me, what’s your favorite part as you moved into the social impact sector?
What’s your favorite part of this work?

Gordon: I mean, that answer Tasha right now is more focused on Gord 3.0 and trying to, establish, an identity, so that people will see me as a valuable solution to their problems. The favorite piece of the work is, I come in through the front door, I come in through consulting.
People have problems. They’ve got revenue problems, they’ve got marketing problems, they’ve got governance problems. They’ve got measurement problems. They have real problems that they need to have solved. And so I come in through that front door and I solve those [00:04:00] problems beautifully.
At least I think I do. But, I love, once I’m in the front door, coming in the side door for executive coaching to help them because. It’s my view for the world is coaching is the accelerant for strategy. You can buy pieces of strategy and it will do okay, or it will do great, but if you, supplement it through, executive coaching to help people lower their barriers and see what’s standing in the way, then strategy really takes off.
And so I’ve got great examples of strategies that were good, but once we started engaging with the founder or the leader to do coaching, and it was hard because most often there’s the trust is low. They don’t want it, they don’t wanna do coaching, they just wanna do strategy. That’s when strategy really takes off.
Right? And I’m really enjoying coming into the front door, developing that trust, and then going, Hey, maybe we should do, some executive coaching.

Tasha: I can totally see the deep benefit as somebody [00:05:00] who is finding themselves in a leadership position but doesn’t still totally identify as a leader.
And how do I think it’s something that is often a struggle in this sector because of tight fund, kind of the same way I’m in startup land right now. Often. Money is tight. You have to have a strategy if you’re going to succeed. But at the same time, you feel sometimes like you’re just stumbling along in the dark trying to figure out your own, how do you fit into the strategy?
And so I think that’s such a valuable, skill. You’re as skill that you’re bringing to these conversations.

Gordon: Yeah. And, there are rare. I would say 90% of, no. Let’s flip it the other way. Only 10% really kind of see that investment in leaders and have budget and put money towards executive coaching.
I’d say 90% really just are focusing on, you know. So if you can create the space, inside that 90%, just to carve off a bit, of space, to help people look, it’s very lonely being an ED or a director, right? If you’re a director, you’ve got [00:06:00] people underneath you.
Who are barking at you. You’ve got your vp, like that middle part is very difficult. If you’re a CEO, it’s even more difficult because you can’t really disclose to, the people who are reporting to you and you’re certainly are often not disclosing to your board.
Right? So coaching can be a really great protected space, to be able to have those conversations to go well to vent for sure. Yeah. But also, to get some, independent third party, you know, advisory, if that’s what you need, to find your own way. So yeah, I’m just a huge fan.
Things just go better with executive coaching that they just do.

Tasha: Yeah. That’s awesome. Now this, you highlighted one of the challenges you see in this sector, and we started to talk about it, but. What do you feel are some of the biggest challenges facing nonprofit that you’ve seen over the last couple of years?

Gordon: Yeah, so Perma Crisis, poly Crisis. I’ve heard both of those phrases. Maybe, you know, people who are listening to this have heard that idea [00:07:00] like that we, we have just been in, constant, flux right from, cOVID and look, I don’t think it’s getting any lighter or any better.
And so I’m looking, the next three years, the Canadian government has said, look, there’s gonna be 15% cuts across the board. I am not hearing a lot of organizations talk about that, which I don’t understand. And so I’m gonna be talking about that a bit. Nice. But there’s no protective ring, Tasha around social services, right?
There’s just not there. There’s protective rings probably around healthcare. I think that there’s gonna be consolidation in the industry, right? Because, there will be budgets that will be cut and the services will have to consolidate and boards. I think, if it wasn’t hard enough to be a volunteer board in a not-for-profit, I think it’s gonna get more challenging because just narrating the decline, like that’s not really gonna be good enough.
Right? We’re gonna have to step up differently. I think there’s consolidation coming. I don’t think, the charities have the resilience around revenue diversity. I’m doing this with my arms. I don’t know why, but they don’t have the muscle, [00:08:00] this is

Tasha: the only, the only way to describe this moment
I love that.

Gordon: Your elbows
up. I don’t know. Yeah. And boards or organizations that got creative around. I know it’s a bit buzzy these days, but sovereignty or nation building, like those are the ways in which you’re gonna see alignment with, where dollars are, right? So I’m never usually a chase the dollars kind of a guy, but I think it’s important to frame what you do, in some way that’s speaks to, federal priorities.

Tasha: I think nonprofits just have to always look at the land, the landscape that they’re existing in, because it is always, I had a group I used to work with years ago that was in the indigenous, services space here in Canada, and they knew that they were getting a lot of funding because it was a hot topic and especially being a COVID, so all this money flowing in.
But this particular group was like, yeah, but we’re trendy. There’s trendiness, which is a horrible thing to say, but sometimes. The political landscape, [00:09:00] the landscape across the nation does matter for how funding moves. Right. And so they knew that. And so the whole goal for what they were doing with this additional funding was building out the infrastructure for when the money was going to inevitably leave.
Right. But I don’t think that’s often because we know that. Homeless shelters will always probably be needed to some degree. And soup kitchens and there’s so many things that happen in the social services sector that probably will always need to exist. I think sometimes nonprofits get stuck in this like, well, we are always going to be needed, but that doesn’t mean you’re always going to be funded just because you’re always needed.
Like those things are not in like intrinsically tied together. So that can be tough for I’m sure organizations to plan for.

Gordon: Oh, very. And I love that indigenous story, right? I think it sounds, oh, that group sounds, it was very, forward thinking in that, look, we’re gonna plan for the rainy day.
Yeah. Because the times are good. Right. And the end goal, I think is to, flatten out that, those peaks and valleys right there. It’s feast or famine [00:10:00] often, right? And it can be done. It takes a long time, I think to flatten that line a bit right. If you are 80% government and 20% other, like it, it might take four or five years to drop that to 50% government and 50% other, which means you can ride out the
Yeah,
The highs and the lows.
But, that is a key challenge that. I’ve seen organizations succeed, and this is my personal point of view, when they develop some kind of social enterprise, and not for everybody, right? If you’re doing direct frontline services, to youth in crisis, like you’re not selling products and services, so that might get it right?
Yeah. But if it’s possible, right? To have some sort of market economy that’s separate, that runs on a different cycle from government. That really helps. Right. And I just think it makes, organizations more creative and innovative and an appetite to take on a bit of risk when you look at developing the social enterprise.
So that would be my worldview, Tasha, about how to fix it.

Tasha: I love it. No, I think it’s fantastic. Great responses.

Gordon: So can I give one more? Social problems are [00:11:00] very complex, I think. And just to state the obvious and, I think the structure of a not-for-profit is a good solution, to solve a social problem.
I also think business, can also solve social problems. And so if you’re really innovative and creative right? I would think, and you’re thinking about starting something, I would really look at a different structure other than a charitable structure to solve that problem.

Tasha: Yeah.
Oh, we can have this conversation some other times, but there is reason why the nonprofit hub is not currently a nonprofit because, and that’s been an active choice, looked around at different things. But I do think that there is so

Gordon: interesting that you said that.
Like that, yeah.

Tasha: Right. It should be

Gordon: instructive.

Tasha: Yeah, exactly. Well, we’ll see. I always like to ask the questions and I love this, gored 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 idea is now stuck in my head, but as you started this consultancy on this journey, how has peer support factored into where you’re at now?

Gordon: Yeah, I’ve loved this question. I’ve got a lot of answers, I think. It’s very lonely, right? [00:12:00] And you’ve heard this a million times. I was with a consulting organization. We were boutique, we were 10, 11, but I still had peers, right? Like I was taken off at the knees, right?
And so, yeah. I’ve done north of not 200 calls in the last 16 months, maybe a bit, and not exclusively with Hive, right. Hive’s been part of that, and I have found great thinking partners, like really new people when doing board retreats or I call new people and I’m like, I have this problem, or I’m struggling with this.
And sometimes they’re rah and sometimes it’s hardcore strategy. It’s just been great. It’s expanded, you know? People that I can rely on. Because that was that when I left, they were still my friends and colleagues, but they were busy doing their other things.

Tasha: Absolutely.

Gordon: And the second big thing around that is and I talk about this when I do get on the calls, like I have a very narrow lens of the view of social impact. ’cause I did it in a certain way with a certain group. I’ve just been like, that’s how you do it. Like literally, oh, I do it differently.
Or I get on the call with [00:13:00] international social impact practitioners, catalyst and some other guys, and I’m the only white male, and I’m like, this is perfect. I’m gonna shut the hell up. I’m listen to all of these other, mostly women, mostly South Asian, speak about how they’re deploying their solution.
And so it’s just been fantastic too. I knew there was more than what I was doing. Like I know that sounds, but when you’re in it for day to day, like you’re so focused on delivering for the client. Delivering for the client, so it’s wonderful to like, ah, how do you do what you do?
Right? It’s opened up my channels of thinking a lot more.

Tasha: I had the pleasure of, I only got to see even a small portion of it, but a friend from the nonprofit, hi Courtney Harness, who again now I’m like. How did I not know you? Like nine months ago? This seems wild to me because we spent so much time very deeply caring about belonging.
He’s coming at it from a totally different angle than I am and he was talking about social capital in this webinar and like the idea of social capital is that much greater the more [00:14:00] diverse the audience is. Like you gain more from that. And as he was speaking about it, it was like, oh, well that’s why.
That’s

Gordon: cool.

Tasha: People will look at it and feel that I have a deep amount of social capital and it’s like. Because I got the heck out of like a mono, thought pro. But seriously though, right? And so like I’m consciously always seeking out the more diverse spaces I can. And similar to yourself.
I’m working really hard on just sitting there and if no one asks my thoughts, I am listening and trying to process my own thoughts as much as possible. And, it’s been an incredible experience. I am sad that I didn’t have that experience. Going to university was the biggest shift in my entire life by a long shot.

Gordon: Oh, in that way

Tasha: going well, I went from a town of like 5,000 people to a town of 150,000 people, so not substantially more, but it was a big difference, and I went from. A place of everyone looking like me to at least having like a [00:15:00] 20% diversity. It wasn’t crazy. We’re here in Canada, it’s a small area. Right.
But it was for me, moving into Kingston, going to Queens University, the biggest benefit I got was people from different backgrounds. I had never ridden public transit going to school. And I was meeting all these kids are in Toronto telling me, and you just blows your mind. And that’s such a small example.
No, no. But it’s such

Gordon: a great example. It’s so

Tasha: small. But I think, I pushed out my outside of my small town. And that was just in my 20, you know, 19 to 23 that was my life. And then did Ottawa. And, I think we underestimate how each step into more diverse environments, it makes us more.
Right. It does, it makes us into something more. So I’m always keen for that.

Gordon: Yeah, look, I love that story. When you’re younger, you’re open for those changes and those, lifecycle events, they will naturally push you into, so you’re gonna go from a small town to university, you know, X, right?
Or, marriage, but as you get older, at least this has been my experience and I’m just coming to this thought now, like, you get pretty set in [00:16:00] your ways. Like I was a decade at Lyft Impact Partners, right? We did our thing at a certain way, right? So you become, a bit desensitized to, being open to looking at other things, right?
And so that was also a signal that, hey, like I, gore 3.0 needs to come out of it more, right? ’cause I’m feeling a bit crunched in, and I don’t know if other professionals feel that way, that, you’ve got your mouse trap, you’ve got your thinking, and , you just keep going and like everything becomes a nail, you know, because you’ve got the hammer.
Yeah. So it’s been, I can’t tell you how,, I should write a post about it, but there’s been a number of people who’ve really broadened my thinking about how, and look, I’m a coach, how to change my own mindset, which is really funny, but also how to deliver, those solutions that people need.

Tasha: I love that. That’s great. So I’m gonna ask you, ’cause I know you mentioned I should really tally up how many conversations I have had in the last year. I’m a little nervous and then I’d have to admit to my husband how much I’m talking versus, he’s always like, are you talking but you’re doing

Gordon: stuff?
Come on Asha. Like your numbers probably.

Tasha: I don’t want, I’m not sure. I don’t think I wanna know. I [00:17:00] don’t. It’ll be a great post. Yeah. I dunno if I wanna do that. But, how many hive chats do you think you’ve had, Gordon, outta curiosity?

Gordon: I don’t know. I’ve done it every week and it’s been over a year, I mean, that’s at least 50, right?

Tasha: Yeah. So you just had your, yesterday was number 46 yesterday. Exactly. I love that you’re very close. Good. Call on that. Good call on that, my friend. I’m pretty regular, right? You are very, you’ve joined.

Gordon: Yeah. And. Public, like, I think I’ve missed one or two. And it was like, oh my, my father-in-law was at the hospital like, real, I’m so

Tasha: sorry I never missed these calls.
I love these. No, you’ve been very, 46. I love

Gordon: that. That’s

Tasha: great. Solid members whose hard in, and I know people have lovely things to say about you after your calls and we get so many testimonials, I can’t even get through all the testimonials like that we have. It’s been wild.
But what have you gotten out of being a member of the nonprofit? Hive community.

Gordon: Yeah, it’s the same. I think it’s a bit of the same as before, right? I’m meeting a lot of people from the states and certainly I get a broader perspective of what’s happening, politically and economically, right?
And [00:18:00] how the changes, in the current government are impacting their work. So that’s been great. I also just get like I’ve met filmmakers, right? Like people just do radically different stuff than me and we’ll just talk about, making film and what do I know about making film, right?
So we don’t necessarily, often or sometimes don’t speak about, the industry, which is just fine, right? It’s nice just to get on and I don’t know if you’d like to hear that or not, but sometimes it’s just cool to connect as a human being. And then at the end we’re like, oh, we didn’t really talk about, that’s fine that we didn’t talk about, you know?

Tasha: Yeah.

Gordon: My Thursdays are great. Like they’re just infinitely better than my other days. ’cause it’s an eight 30 start and it just sets the tone for the day. It’s been a real, a bonus to have the Thursdays. I

Tasha: love that. I love that. Well, thank you so much. Oh, also, I always love to ask how can people get in touch with you?
How can they follow along with your journey website? All of those details. I’ll throw it in the comments. So

Gordon: thank you Tasha. LinkedIn is really the best. So if you came back with me on LinkedIn, then we can go from there. [00:19:00]

Tasha: Okay. That’s wonderful. Thank you so much for being just a long time member. You know, nothing, a love more than people who are like just consistent, like consistency.
Most unsung. Wonderful trait in human beings is those people who are just like, yeah, no, the commitment consistency. And I think that’s something that, it’s lovely to have it. And I know someone said, don’t use the word networking anymore, say the word gathering. People who are gathering and like, somehow it’s a warmer term and I think you’re a great example of someone , who gathers others and just creates that environment.

Gordon: Look, I love, I’m an extrovert for sure. I get energy and, yeah. The community is really important, right? It just is, it takes us back to the beginning. So, thank you for, doing all that you do in a for-profit structure.

Tasha: Hey, we’re trying, working our way in the ways that move best.
Right? And I’m sure there’s an entire conversation there someday about why I didn’t do it a different way. But then I’d be outing all the challenges of the, I’m sure people in nonprofit [00:20:00] who listen to this will know exactly and can imagine some of the reasons why. But, thanks so much for doing this with me, Gordon.
It’s awesome.

Gordon: Thank you.